IL School Board Suspends Teacher for Teaching About the 5A

This is a discussion on IL School Board Suspends Teacher for Teaching About the 5A within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; In another attack by school administrators against the constitution, a teacher is being suspended for a day for telling his kids they have a right ...

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Thread: IL School Board Suspends Teacher for Teaching About the 5A

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    IL School Board Suspends Teacher for Teaching About the 5A

    In another attack by school administrators against the constitution, a teacher is being suspended for a day for telling his kids they have a right to not incriminate themselves. The school passed out a questionnaire asking kids to self-report illegal activity (drugs/booze/tobacco). The teacher informed them that they did not have to answer questions that could incriminate them. Read it and weep.

    Teacher Punished for Telling Students About Constitutional Rights | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes
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    Senior Member Array Oldpsufan's Avatar
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    Somehow I get the feeling that the school board has been looking for ways to discredit the teacher knowing this would do it. My suspicion is based on the teacher's looks and presentation, and my own past experience in a similar situation. I could be wrong, but bravo for him for looking out for others in disregard for the consequences he must surly know he would take.

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    Will the 6000 signatories to the petition even bother to vote at the next school board election?

    Probably not.

    If we hope to take this country back to a Constitutional foundation, we must begin at the lowest level, and continue through the presidency...

    Fat Chance.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Was the teacher actually correct about the 5th Amendment and how it applies. Somebody that knows law help me out. I thought that the 5th Amendment was to keep from incriminicating yourself in legal proceedings. It is used when sworn in as a witness during a proceeding in an official capacity,

    Does the 5th A apply to students as far as this questionairre is concerned?
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Was the teacher actually correct about the 5th Amendment and how it applies. Somebody that knows law help me out. I thought that the 5th Amendment was to keep from incriminicating yourself in legal proceedings. It is used when sworn in as a witness during a proceeding in an official capacity,

    Does the 5th A apply to students as far as this questionairre is concerned?
    They were asking if the students have done any drugs, which are illegal. I think the Fifth applies. JMO

    Now on to the stupid school board. What a bunch of pompous jerks. At some point this will have to end....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    I believe the questionairre could be discovered in a legal proceeding against a student. I would think the 5A would apply here.
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    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    They were asking if the students have done any drugs, which are illegal. I think the Fifth applies. JMO

    Now on to the stupid school board. What a bunch of pompous jerks. At some point this will have to end....
    I think the board is a bunch of duffus's.but that is beside the point. If the teacher is not correct in his assessment of the 5thA then IMO he is just as much a danger to students teaching them false things as would a teacher who misinterprets the 2A

    The Fifth Amendment privilege against compulsory self-incrimination applies when an individual is called to testify in a legal proceeding.[41] The Supreme Court ruled that the privilege applies whether the witness is in a federal court or, under the incorporation doctrine of the Fourteenth Amendment, in a state court,[42] and whether the proceeding itself is criminal or civil.[43]
    There is more legal mumble jumbo so I do not know the answer, but I think he is wrong about the 5th A.
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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Was the teacher actually correct about the 5th Amendment and how it applies. Somebody that knows law help me out. I thought that the 5th Amendment was to keep from incriminicating yourself in legal proceedings. It is used when sworn in as a witness during a proceeding in an official capacity,

    Does the 5th A apply to students as far as this questionairre is concerned?
    I can't speak to the 5A regarding minors, but it applies long before you get into court proceedings or being sworn in. You aren't sworn in if a cop questions you and you can (and should) invoke it then. I know it's been posted a bazillion times, but for anyone who hasn't seen it, this is must viewing:

    Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

    This isn't just good for adults, it should be required for every civics class in the country. Law enforcement probably wouldn't appreciate it, but the Bill of Rights doesn't exist for their convenience.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    I can't speak to the 5A regarding minors, but it applies long before you get into court proceedings or being sworn in. You aren't sworn in if a cop questions you and you can (and should) invoke it then. I know it's been posted a bazillion times, but for anyone who hasn't seen it, this is must viewing:

    Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

    This isn't just good for adults, it should be required for every civics class in the country. Law enforcement probably wouldn't appreciate it, but the Bill of Rights doesn't exist for their convenience.
    Yes, I understand that. But does the 5th A apply to a questionairre given by the school. What I am getting at is this:

    Was the teacher correct in his speach about incriminating oneself in the situation they had at the school, vis a vis the 5th A? If he was not he is just as bad as a teacher incorrectly teaching kids about the 2A or 1A and imparting their opinions on it as fact.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    5A or not, we all have the right to not answer any question. Now the students see that resisting higher authorities results in punishment. That's not a good thing.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    While I don't legally "know" the answer to your question suntzu, it seems that, since said questionnaire could easily be seen by LE, you would be incriminating yourself prior to being charged.

    A bit different than writing "I hate Johnny, I could kill him!" You are being asked if you killed Johnny.

    Committed a crime.

    I would hope the 5th applies.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    While I don't legally "know" the answer to your question suntzu, it seems that, since said questionnaire could easily be seen by LE, you would be incriminating yourself prior to being charged.

    A bit different than writing "I hate Johnny, I could kill him!" You are being asked if you killed Johnny.

    Committed a crime.

    I would hope the 5th applies.

    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
    I agree with everybody...not making wave for once LOL....but the teacher needs to be teaching what is accurate and not imposing his opinions on something. We get irate when they do that with the 2A , 1A and other issues.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Yes, I understand that. But does the 5th A apply to a questionairre given by the school. What I am getting at is this:

    Was the teacher correct in his speach about incriminating oneself in the situation they had at the school, vis a vis the 5th A? If he was not he is just as bad as a teacher incorrectly teaching kids about the 2A or 1A and imparting their opinions on it as fact.
    That's why I gave the caveat about minors. I know that minors do not have the same Constitutional rights as adults, particularly when it comes to school activities or property. The question is whether the school's "rules" have legal strength. The survey wouldn't be covered by any privilege I can think of, so does the school have the ability to say, "Our policy is not to report anything on these surveys, but in this instance we made an exception." If the policy had no legal muscle, then the teacher was right. Policy isn't the same as law. So even if the administrators were acting in good faith, without an actual law behind their policy, it may make sense to not answer the questions.

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    While I'm no lawyer, I would think that since the teacher, through the school, is an agent of the state government, it should apply.

    But whether a judge would agree...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    5A or not, we all have the right to not answer any question. Now the students see that resisting higher authorities results in punishment. That's not a good thing.
    Exactly. So if the student were to refuse to take the survey, or leave everything on it blank and turn it in... what consequences would they face? If they were punished or even 'flagged' by the school I would call that a violate of the 5A. Innocent until proven guilty, especially on something that's illegal and not just "breaking school rules."

    If the survey was for some kind of poll/statistic with no name tied to it then I'd say this is nothing. But with names attached, it becomes an admission of a criminal offense (in the case of drug/alcohol) or possible exaggerations of mental health in the future.

    Imagine getting denied for a CHL because you were deemed "emo" in high school, flagging yourself as a mental health risk. Yes, I know that's a bit of a stretch right now but with the way the gun control lawmakers (and NY SAFE Act) are going I really wouldn't be surprised.
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