George Orwell's 1984 - 29 Years Late!

This is a discussion on George Orwell's 1984 - 29 Years Late! within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Experts: Obama’s plan to predict future leakers unproven, unlikely to work | McClatchy NSA, IRS, and now we're ordered to spy on each other!...

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Thread: George Orwell's 1984 - 29 Years Late!

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    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    George Orwell's 1984 - 29 Years Late!



    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Federal employees and contractors are asked to pay particular attention to the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors – like financial troubles, odd working hours or unexplained travel – of co-workers as a way to predict whether they might do “harm to the United States.” Managers of special insider threat offices will have “regular, timely, and, if possible, electronic, access” to employees’ personnel, payroll, disciplinary and “personal contact” files, as well as records of their use of classified and unclassified computer networks, polygraph results, travel reports and financial disclosure forms.
    There is nothing new here except they are asking co-workers to look for these signs. Right now that is what they look at whenyou get a clearance and when it is for renwewl. Since I started in the 1980's we have been briefed on what folks look for and who can be security risks. And as someone with a clearance you are encouraged to look at things that could be out of whack.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Perhaps someone should have been monitoring Snowdon?
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Again...nothing new with having spies in our midst. It is not the current administration. It has been going on since we became a country.

    Americans who spied for foreign countries

    CIA
    Aldrich Ames
    David Henry Barnett
    William Kampiles
    Harold James Nicholson
    Sharon M. Scranage
    NSA[edit]
    David Sheldon Boone
    Ronald Pelton

    FBI
    Robert Hanssen
    Richard Miller (agent)
    Earl Edwin Pitts

    Armed Forces
    Clayton John Lonetree
    Morris Cohen (Soviet spy)
    John Anthony Walker
    Other[edit]
    Whittaker Chambers
    Samuel Dickstein (congressman)
    Harry Dexter White
    Federal Contractors[edit]
    Christopher John Boyce
    Andrew Daulton Lee
    Jonathan Pollard
    Stewart Nozette
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    There is nothing new here except they are asking co-workers to look for these signs. Right now that is what they look at whenyou get a clearance and when it is for renwewl. Since I started in the 1980's we have been briefed on what folks look for and who can be security risks. And as someone with a clearance you are encouraged to look at things that could be out of whack.
    That might have worked in the past but it doesn't work now. Other officers repeatedly warned their superiors about Nidal Hasan
    but they were swept under the rug of political correctness. That was a pretty big "oops" on the Armys part that got 13 soldiers killed and many others wounded. Even now they refuse to admit it wasn't "work place violence" but a direct attack on our country. If they can't get that right...what hope do we have of protecting ourselves from other attacks, physical or cyber.

    When the administration refuses to accept the facts, nothing will change and it will only continue to get worse.
    tdave, niks and msgt/ret like this.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    As pointed out by Jeanlouise the information may be ignored. On the other hand an unpopular but competent employee may be subjected to scrutiny for purposes of harassment. I would hope this wouldn't happen but one of them already has.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    That might have worked in the past but it doesn't work now. Other officers repeatedly warned their superiors about Nidal Hasan
    but they were swept under the rug of political correctness. That was a pretty big "oops" on the Armys part that got 13 soldiers killed and many others wounded. Even now they refuse to admit it wasn't "work place violence" but a direct attack on our country. If they can't get that right...what hope do we have of protecting ourselves from other attacks, physical or cyber.

    When the administration refuses to accept the facts, nothing will change and it will only continue to get worse.
    Nidal is a different topic. I was talking about about the OP and how folks with security clearances are looked at. The OP is about a "new" policy. I just said that it really is not new.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdave View Post
    As pointed out by Jeanlouise the information may be ignored. On the other hand an unpopular but competent employee may be subjected to scrutiny for purposes of harassment. I would hope this wouldn't happen but one of them already has.
    The Op is about policy for leakers...not NIDAL.....totally different circumstances. And yes, many people screwed up with Nidal.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Nidal is a different topic. I was talking about about the OP and how folks with security clearances are looked at. The OP is about a "new" policy. I just said that it really is not new.
    OK, not new. Has Obama been informed of this?
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    OK, not new. Has Obama been informed of this?
    I was not in the briefing room LOL......As I stated earlier...the only difference (that I can see) is that they are overtly asking folks to "snitch" when before folks just used common sense. The folks that do the security clearances already looked at foriegn travel, bank accounts, et al

    My sister in law was going to marry a russian who used to be an officer in the Red Army. My firends told me I better report that LOL....duh. But If I didn't I am sure someoen would have.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    That might have worked in the past but it doesn't work now. Other officers repeatedly warned their superiors about Nidal Hasan
    but they were swept under the rug of political correctness. That was a pretty big "oops" on the Armys part that got 13 soldiers killed and many others wounded. Even now they refuse to admit it wasn't "work place violence" but a direct attack on our country. If they can't get that right...what hope do we have of protecting ourselves from other attacks, physical or cyber.

    When the administration refuses to accept the facts, nothing will change and it will only continue to get worse.
    They did the same thing with Bradley Manning. When the government ignores its own criteria, it allows stuff like this to happen.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    A security clearance and background investigation is like a lock to a door. If someone really wants to defeat it they can. It keeps honest men honest and is a filter to sift out what suppose to be the most probable personalities that can be risk.

    We always here about the Mannings and Snowdens who are "spies" for lack of a better word.

    Damage is possibly done all the time from folks with big mouths. From Senators, POTUS's, politicians, to the lowly PRFC or airman who thinks it is cool to impress his buddies with "secret" information. I have seen folks screw up big time just trying to brag to folks about what they "know".
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    I have worked Departments where all personnel are mandatory reporters. From my (ants eye) view it seemed we got the same amount of major stuff, but petty exploded exponentially.

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    A few years ago a plan was put in place to monitor spikes in electricity usage when LE was looking for people growing plants that LE frowned on. Of course those that would seek to turn us all into subjects thought this was a great idea. Make everyone a snitch.

    One day my spidey sense told me something was wrong in my backyard. I went out to check it out. Some woman was out there poking around looking at my stuff. I asked who she was. Apparently she was an agent for my home owners insurance.
    I laid into her pretty good explaining she's trespassing and she's leaving immediately or she can explain herself to the cops.
    She tried to explain that since I have insurance through her company she has a right to enter my property without my permission. It was at that point I read her the Riot Act.. I told her next time she should come to my front door, identify herself and we'd take it from there.
    Arejay likes this.
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