This is a discussion on A New Secret Program: This a DOOZY: "XKEYSCORE" within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It's just my opinion, but I do not accept the government having secret, unknown, unmonitored (except by Secret Courts having no Adversarial presence to present ...
It's just my opinion, but I do not accept the government having secret, unknown, unmonitored (except by Secret Courts having no Adversarial presence to present evidence against what the gov, states as its reasons to seek more allowances to gather private information from citizens). Nope just Judges and a Gov prosecutor, The Secret Court is chosen by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court along with the advice of the present President, So the now Chief Justice has a bias toward conservatism and Obama's outlook in this area is quite conservative, they will make their choices and The Secret Courts conservative outlook give them bias towards what the government wants in anything brought to that court.
I simply cannot see our Founder's countenancing this hidden decision making.
Now with another revelation by Snowden, though I don't care if it was Sants Clause who leaked it: XKETSTROKE FYI
New Snowden Leak: NSA Program Taps All You Do Online
By Amanda Wills, Mashable
updated 5:45 PM EDT, Wed July 31, 2013 | Filed under: Web
New Snowden leak: NSA program taps all you do online - CNN.com
Last edited by detective; August 1st, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788
It's all about the "new" transparency.
Retired USAF E-8. Official forum curmudgeon.
Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
I heard an official from NSA on the radio yesterday saying this exact same thing (from the article):
The Guardian reached out to the NSA for comment prior to publication. The agency defended the program, stressing that it was only used to legally obtain information about "legitimate foreign intelligence targets in response to requirements that our leaders need for information necessary to protect our nation and its interests."
"XKeyscore is used as a part of NSA's lawful foreign signals intelligence collection system," the agency said in its response. "Allegations of widespread, unchecked analyst access to NSA collection data are simply not true. Access to XKeyscore, as well as all of NSA's analytic tools, is limited to only those personnel who require access for their assigned tasks ... .
"In addition, there are multiple technical, manual and supervisory checks and balances within the system to prevent deliberate misuse from occurring. Every search by an NSA analyst is fully auditable, to ensure that they are proper and within the law. These types of programs allow us to collect the information that enables us to perform our missions successfully -- to defend the nation and to protect U.S. and allied troops abroad."
I'm torn on this information gathering. I know our government has always gathered information on foreign countries. Since the computer age it's becoming easier and more widespread. We need information on our enemies and what they have planned in order to stop it before it can start. But in the wrong hands, it can be turned against American citizens...such as what happened with the IRS.
IF I trusted the people running our country to do the right thing with the information, I would be more inclined to accept it.
Maybe in 2016 we can get an administration that is worthy of our trust.
So, until then...what's the answer? The NSA guy said yesterday that 32 major terror events have been stopped using this technology. Of course he can say anything he wants because how are we supposed to check.
Therein lies the problem, no oversight and they can use the info for whatever they want.Originally Posted by Jeanlouise;IF I trusted the people running our country to do the right thing with the information, I would be more inclined to accept it.
Maybe in 2016 we can get an administration that is worthy of our trust.
So, until then...what's the answer? The NSA guy said yesterday that 32 major terror events have been stopped using this technology. Of course he can say anything he wants [B
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
The NSA man you quote is giving you the easiest line in the world: "Trust me, it's necessary". When the attempt to verify that with specific details is made: it will be impossible because those details are "Secret". So: "Trust Me"
I don't like any of this because I am not a fool, nor are my countrymen. Governments that allow no oversight move towards excess quickly and I know this.
I dislike all this because I don't like myself and my neighbors coast to coast treated like suspects in as yet uncommitted crimes. The Police in my area can't enter homes, strip-search and DNA-Swab the inhabitants all over the whole area because one of us may turn into a criminal sometime.
I don't like secret Gov. programs with no Civilian oversight - and Secret Courts being the over-sight whose Judges are appointed by the same Gov they are supposed to oversee while having no adversarial position allowed in them to challenge Gov claims. Just the Judges and a "Prosecutor" for the Gov.
I don't like the Gov suspending for itself the Fourth Amendment. Guess who the Fourth A. was aimed at?
I don't like a net over myself and 300 million citizens so some criminals might be caught. The Founders purpose in creating the country was not to make the Gov. have an easier time of it. The reverse. If they want to hit Terrorists go hit 'em - but get a civilian Court Order with evidence of Probable Cause just like the Sheriff of the smallest town in the U.S. has to do. If it was a Dictatorship all police and intelligence agencies would have a simpler job. But it is a Republic and that's the way it is.
Lastly, I dislike this because I have that seminal-feeling and accompanying phrase in my genes that all Americans have:
"GET OUTTA MY HAIR!
The problem is that any time a terrorist attack happens, the press says "Why didn't they see the signs?", "Why didn't they stop it?". As long as we have that attitude in this country, the government will be given more power.
I can't believe that people didn't believe in their hearts this was going on. Do you really think there is privacy on the net? hell I bet there are marketing research programs out there being used by corporations that are close to what the government does.
The drones can look inside your house at night. The court says you have no right to privacy in public. Technology is good and evil all rolled up in one. The cell phone that saves a life on a 911 call can also put you in traffic court with date and time stamp proving you were driving and texting at the same time.
I believe we will see the day we get monthly bills from the court on laws we broke during the month. Just found guilty by electronic surveilance.
Under misdemeanor law, you don't have to face your accuser, you don't have to have intent. so just pay the fine.
It could be worse!
I knew they had a surprise party in mind - really nice! - so I told them. I can hardly wait...
Anyone know why some Citizens Groups, well-funded, would not have started up the legal ladder to a Supreme Court suit? It's about the most Constitutional of issues you could get...
I'm mixed on this. I don't think most people care so much that the government is watching. They just don't want to be reminded of it. We're watched all the time. Go into a store, security cameras are tracking your every move. It's not just local. As quickly as the computer can upload it, it's transmitted to corporate headquarters or wherever in the world they want to send it. My city has traffic cameras all over the place. Maybe yours does also. My Kroger Plus Card, Walgreens Card, Books-A-Million Card, etc track everything I purchase and read and load it into some database somewhere. Google Earth has pictures of my house right down to the car in the driveway. Get on the computer at work and there's a little icon in the lower right that reminds you that corporate IT is watching what you're doing online. The postal service scans the outside of every single piece of mail that you receive. They've been doing it for years. Every app on your smart phone will gps track your location if you will allow it. Most of the time you have to specifically opt out. It tracks by default.
So Snowden reminds us that the government is watching us and people act like they didn't have a clue that they were being watched before. This spying, either by business or government has been going on for years, and the majority of Americans just quietly accepted it and let it get larger and more invasive.
Now, it's apparently gotten to this point....
New York woman visited by police after researching pressure cookers online | World news | theguardian.com
"The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius
I'd make an excuse declining because I have a Doctors Appointment but the NSA sent me an E-mail saying I didn't.