Who's country is it anyway?

This is a discussion on Who's country is it anyway? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is kind of in response to the union thread, but it has much larger scope, and is not about unions except for one statement: ...

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Thread: Who's country is it anyway?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Who's country is it anyway?

    This is kind of in response to the union thread, but it has much larger scope, and is not about unions except for one statement:

    If you are complacent in your governance, whether it be a local benevolent association/group (Elks, Masons, Legion, whatever), or a union (trade, labor, service, whatever) or your government (local, county, state, or federal), you have little right to complain about how you are being served, unless you PARTICIPATE.

    This country was founded by, and for; We, the People. The hope, espoused much later than inception of the nation and it's government was that it should be a "...government of the people, by the people, and for the people."

    We have accepted governance, not by our peers (the people), but by "professionals."

    Many, not all (but probably most), of those we have elected to service (so that they could "serve us"); believe they have been elected to power . Power over the rest of us. This is the case in every little group from your local Home Owner's Association... to city government, county government, state government and our own federal government.

    Our participation consists of going to the ballot box every couple of years, or maybe only every four years... There! We've done our bit. We voted, we have the right to complain about how our elected officials govern us, whether we voted for them or not.

    We're busy... we're busy being parents, and going to the range, and taking kids to soccer, and watching Duck Dynasty (or The Voice) , and working, and being retired, and making sure we have the best lawn in the neighborhood.

    Oh sure, when the elected step over the line, we squall like kittens who have had their tails stepped on.

    But were we there to show them the line in the first place? Did we participate? Did we go to the school board meeting, did we go to the town hall, did we talk to our congress critters at their local offices BEFORE they crossed the line? Most likely not. But boy, we sure give 'em hell when they don't do what we want them to do.

    Now, I'm part of the "WE" as well. I'm no saint telling you what YOU should do. Go ahead, have that big gulp! I have and will again, I'm sure. But I am saying that we are too disengaged. We "hire" others to do all the participating for us by paying dues in organizations that represent the majority of our interests... NRA, GOA, AARP, WHATEVER. But those organizations don't represent ALL of our views.

    So, who's country is it anyway? Is it the NAACP's? The ACLU's? The NRA's? AARP's? ALEC's?

    Nope. It's our country... it's our union... it's our Elks Club, our School system, our town, our county, state, and OUR NATION. We the people need to; at least on occasion, participate. Letters are good, emails are good, faxes and phone calls, all good. It ain't enough.

    When you wish to hold someone else accountable for their actions in SERIOUS matters; say a child, or an employee, do you just call them? Text 'em? Send an email? Isn't it far more effective to look them in the eye and say "You have fallen short of my expectations in this regard."

    Wouldn't it have been better to tell them what your expectations were in the first place, than to have to tell them of their shortfall AFTER the fact? Been to a town hall? Been to a candidate's rally? Looked them in the eye.. and said, "This is what I expect from my government elected."

    So to answer my own question:

    Who's country is it anyway?

    It's ours. Yours, mine, and every other citizen's... But it won't be for long if we don't PARTICIPATE... Both before and after the elections.

    And, I am as guilty as the rest of us collectively... I will try to do more.

    :rant off: carry on.
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

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  3. #2
    Member Array jscottjr's Avatar
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    Wish I could like this twice. I need to do MUCH more. I have made and art form out of non-participation.

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    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    [OAKCHAS 2016]
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    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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    Amen from the choir.

    This is something I have been saying for a long time. People need to get involved, volunteer to be your kids soccer coach, attend your city council and town hall meetings, become informed on the issues that matter to you. Don't just parrot something you heard on the news or radio or read on a blog, spend the 30 extra minutes to Google it and verify the facts if you can.

    I live in a small town of about 5,000 and out of those 5,000 there are only about 300 who actually do anything with/for the town. I see the same faces at the PTA, City Council meetings, as volunteers for the community center, raising money for the fire department, community theater, etc... That's less than 10% of the town who actually does anything.

    If you have ever said that "someone needs to do something" (about anything) then that "someone" is you.

    If we do not get involved on the local level then we don't have any hope of truly influencing the national level
    oakchas likes this.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    Personally thougt I would love to believe it can be and I will work hard at every opportunity to try to make it so, I dont thing the 2A or personal freedom problems can be fixed at the voting booth. Not Federally nor through SCOTUS. Once would be dictators and tryrunts have grabbed powers they did not have nor legally should they are loathe to give them up. At a state level it will likely be easier. Im not sure we actually have a say in who the President is anymore with the election process in this nation resembling a third world process with each election in the past few years.

    The signing of the small arms treaty was and is an act of treason. It has only one purpose and those who signed and supported its signing have given notice they will stop at nothing in their attempt to disarm the American people under whatever guise they can come up with. It wont work. But they have signaled they intend to at some point try a forced confiscation in the future. Likely not in my life time but who knows maybe so. I dont think we can participate that away. I wish we could. I hope we can. But im not so sure anymore.

    If we do it will be because we have put reps in officer at both levels who will not go along to get along. There are a few. Cruse Rand Paul, come to mind. But until they are the norm instead of the exception I dont see much changing because of participation. I hope I am wrong.
    Patti likes this.
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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    [clicks like button frantically]
    My only caveat is that there's an onus to have an informed opinion. Like, an aggressively informed opinion, with new sources of data and methods of altering one's opinion if it's warranted. That way, the participation creates synergy. An uninformed position has to be a lucky one to be beneficial. Well, so does an informed position, I guess, but the odds are better...
    Tzadik likes this.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Who's country is it? The Dems and GOP. They own the country. They tell us who we have to vote for, they control everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Who's country is it? The Dems and GOP. They own the country. They tell us who we have to vote for, they control everything.
    Only because we let them, if we want to affect a change it has to be from the ground up, we have to start at the local level and build up.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Who's country is it? The Dems and GOP. They own the country. They tell us who we have to vote for, they control everything.
    Only to the extent that both are controlled by the mainstream media, which in turn is controlled by a handful of powerful liberals like Soros. It's been a long time since either political party (especially the GOP) chose its own candidates. They are now chosen, de facto, by the media. The best, recent example is Herman Cain. There was 10x more damaging info on Barack Hussein that was never used by the media than the mostly manufactured propaganda they used to destroy Cain. If the media doesn't want you as a candidate, you won't be one. The last man who got past them was Ronald Reagan.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Who's country is it? The Dems and GOP. They own the country. They tell us who we have to vote for, they control everything.
    Who OWNS them?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post
    Only to the extent that both are controlled by the mainstream media, which in turn is controlled by a handful of powerful liberals like Soros. It's been a long time since either political party (especially the GOP) chose its own candidates. They are now chosen, de facto, by the media. The best, recent example is Herman Cain. There was 10x more damaging info on Barack Hussein that was never used by the media than the mostly manufactured propaganda they used to destroy Cain. If the media doesn't want you as a candidate, you won't be one. The last man who got past them was Ronald Reagan.
    That's part of the problem. Bottom line is $$$.

    But, I have to say Colorado recently overcame the $$$ problem, so it can be done. And it isn't all done with competing funds... Colorado's victory came at the expense of shoe leather, F2F time, PEOPLE, boots on the ground.

    There's an inkling of hope.
    ShooterGranny likes this.
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    [clicks like button frantically]
    My only caveat is that there's an onus to have an informed opinion. Like, an aggressively informed opinion, with new sources of data and methods of altering one's opinion if it's warranted. That way, the participation creates synergy. An uninformed position has to be a lucky one to be beneficial. Well, so does an informed position, I guess, but the odds are better...
    Yes, as long as it's MY informed opinion.

    No, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Some are informed in my way, others in different ways. All sources of information have some twisted facts in them or facts that can be twisted.

    But it is the responsibility of the governed in a republic such as ours to make his voice heard. It's the job of the representative to follow the will of the majority, but they must also protect the RIGHTS of the minority.

    In reality, it's not an easy job. The easy way out is to listen to the $$ or to listen to the majority (who may well be silent, so the $$ does all the talking). The hard part is discerning the truth. Protecting the rights of all the people.

    Sort of like this:

    We have the right to BE secure in our papers and property (at least from the government).

    But the "twisted view" only changes one word:

    BE to FEEL.

    And some, then, want to be made to FEEL secure by their government. And worse yet, they expect the Gov't to protect them from other people by infringing on those others rights.

    And this is the part that's sooooo hard to explain.. to unpack, to wrap our heads around... The electee has to have some sort of compass, some morals, some scruples. We can't discern any of that from TV ads, from brochures, from what our neighbor says about them.

    It's best, IMO, to meet the man, to shake the hand, to get a feeling for the person... And if I could I'd bring a good dog along, too. Sometimes they're better than we are at sniffing out vermin.... and surely, if a dog won't trust a man... I ought to know better.
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Yes, as long as it's MY informed opinion.
    If this was a sarcastic reply, then you're mischaracterizing my argument. If it wasn't, then I vociferously disagree. An informed opinion is latently more useful as a guiding voice (or vote) than an uninformed one; my thesis is that we have an onus to be aggressive in our self-improvement
    manolito likes this.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


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    IMO the largest obstacle I have is explaining my side of the argument. I expect too many people to understand what I am saying and stand for. There is a large section of the populace who believe that anyone who doesnt agree with them is wrong. Period
    That type of mindset does nothing for negotiations or empathy for anothers view. When I discuss the constitution I expect others to "get it". It is right there in black and white, clearly stated in standard english. yet too many times people want to put words in the mouths of the founding fathers by using the phrase " what it means is..." That simple often condescending and maddening phrase is why we are in the boat we are paddling upstream today.
    No one wants to take things at face value anymore. They all have to be construed to mean something other than what it actually means. By this means is how we have been manipulated into the state we are now in. We have let the government get too unruly with the rule of law. The hundreds of thousands of vague and overlapping, overstepping laws and beaurocracy we have allowed to be created is now strangling us and this wonderful republic.
    When is enough enough? What is on the horizon? It is up to we the people now. Love it or leave, put up or shut up, where the cow ate the cabbage, and all of the other cliches one can think of.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

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