What I saw at the doomsday prepper convention (Article)

What I saw at the doomsday prepper convention (Article)

This is a discussion on What I saw at the doomsday prepper convention (Article) within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Here's a good article from Forbes " More and more Americans are spending money to get ready for an uncertain future -- gathering food, water, ...

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    What I saw at the doomsday prepper convention (Article)

    Here's a good article from Forbes

    " More and more Americans are spending money to get ready for an uncertain future -- gathering food, water, tools, and skills to help them weather anything from a hurricane to a pandemic. Contrary to images of deluded or gun-obsessed "lone wolves," many preppers are average consumers reacting to concrete worries, and their way of thinking is spreading, fueling an emerging lifestyle trend. That lifestyle is generating demand for a broad spectrum of products offering survival -- or even comfort -- when large-scale systems go down."



    What I saw at the doomsday prepper convention - Fortune Tech
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    Wait…we're not all crazy?

    But seriously. He's just saying what we've all known. It's not paranoia, or fear even, just some good old fashioned preparation.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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    Thank you pgrass101, you always share great info and I do appreciate it!

    The info on the bees, great to know and now I can tell others about how bees work without getting stung. You are the DC prepper informer
    Matthew 5:44

    But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;.


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    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Here is my theory; Let's say an EMP does occur and causes widespread and long lasting power outages.

    The urbanized areas, particularly in this country, will quickly devolve into a free for all. In a relatively short time frame the only civilized areas remaining will be isolated rural areas with sparse populations.(country, mountains, desert) and a large supply of natural resources (water, food, etc.)

    If you live in the suburbs or in the city you can spend 10's or even 100's of thousands of dollars trying to prepare, but unless you have a well stocked and well defended place in an isolated location outside the city and a way to get there quickly you are going to be SOL. If you are trying to develop a sustainable fortress in a heavily populated area you are deluding yourself and your family.

    Your "self sustainable castle" will quickly become a target and your ability to defend it will be sorely tested.

    The venerable real estate mantra "Location,location,location!!" takes on a whole different meaning.

    Unfortunately I don't have the resources or the inclination to prepare for the off chance that some civilization devastating event will occur. I am prepared for short term disruptions of my lifestyle (brown outs, weather and other natural disasters) but beyond that I am pretty much dead meat.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    We talk a lot about Switzerland... you know, where everyone has a rifle provided by the gov't (though they don't keep the ammo at home, folks)...

    But they also have an interesting bunch of bunkers strewn all over the place... in cities and in the mountains... and even on the water

    Here's a link to a guy that has taken pictures of some of them around the country... swiss bunkers
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodad View Post
    Here is my theory; Let's say an EMP does occur and causes widespread and long lasting power outages.

    The urbanized areas, particularly in this country, will quickly devolve into a free for all. In a relatively short time frame the only civilized areas remaining will be isolated rural areas with sparse populations.(country, mountains, desert) and a large supply of natural resources (water, food, etc.)

    If you live in the suburbs or in the city you can spend 10's or even 100's of thousands of dollars trying to prepare, but unless you have a well stocked and well defended place in an isolated location outside the city and a way to get there quickly you are going to be SOL. If you are trying to develop a sustainable fortress in a heavily populated area you are deluding yourself and your family.

    Your "self sustainable castle" will quickly become a target and your ability to defend it will be sorely tested.

    The venerable real estate mantra "Location,location,location!!" takes on a whole different meaning.

    Unfortunately I don't have the resources or the inclination to prepare for the off chance that some civilization devastating event will occur. I am prepared for short term disruptions of my lifestyle (brown outs, weather and other natural disasters) but beyond that I am pretty much dead meat.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. Likely one is better off in a rural area, but I'm not convinced cities are going to turn into Mad Max zones. Police and soldiers don't evaporate because the power goes out, nor do their guns stop working.
    ...there is no arguing with such snivelling puppies, who allow superiors to kick them about deck at pleasure.

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    I used to stockpile several months of food. My dad recommended that we all start doing that after 911, and I heeded his advice.

    In the last few years a Grisly-Adams-type buddy of mine has been teaching me how to live off the land. Now I think more in terms of tools vs. provisions. Provisions will eventually run out anyway.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    We talk a lot about Switzerland... you know, where everyone has a rifle provided by the gov't (though they don't keep the ammo at home, folks)...

    But they also have an interesting bunch of bunkers strewn all over the place... in cities and in the mountains... and even on the water

    Here's a link to a guy that has taken pictures of some of them around the country... swiss bunkers
    Actually it has been a requirement in the building code for the last 60 years or so (since WWII). Doesn't matter if it's an apartment bldg, office complex, private residence or what there will be X amount of square feet shelter space. Blast doors, decontamination areas, fallout measuring equipment- depending on various codes. Y'all can scoff and laugh and have a jolly time discounting the Swiss and their notions. During an EMP or nuclear attack my choice of where to be is pretty much anywhere in Switzerland or submerged aboard a US Submarine.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    EMPs hit the earth about 1.4 BILLION times a year... in the form of lightning...

    Lightning hits cars, too. Cars with computers in them... are they rendered useless by such strikes? Hardly... Are the people in them fried to a crisp as though in a microwave..? nope...

    Is your car a faraday cage? Maybe.

    here's an interesting video:

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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I used to stockpile several months of food. My dad recommended that we all start doing that after 911, and I heeded his advice.

    In the last few years a Grisly-Adams-type buddy of mine has been teaching me how to live off the land. Now I think more in terms of tools vs. provisions. Provisions will eventually run out anyway.

    Provisions are just equipment that you use until you have reached a point of sustainability for whatever circumstances you find yourself in.

    Knowledge is the real key to survival, if you have purchase a seed bank but have never gardened in you life then it isn't going to do you much good.

    Have a plan, practice what you can of that plan. Have a garden and means to scale up production in case you need too. Have enough provisions to see you through until harvest time.


    If you live in an urban area have container gardens and the means to scale up production.

    Think about how you would have heat and water in case the grid goes down. And how long each of those methods will last
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    We talk a lot about Switzerland...

    Here's a link to a guy that has taken pictures of some of them around the country... swiss bunkers
    I looked at all of those pictures. Looked to me like Observation and or Listening posts and fortified gun emplacements from WWII and possibly the Cold War. Not what I am referring to in my post #8 at all. A few appeared to be ventilation intakes or exhaust.

    I believe Hodad has a pretty good take on the situation. Maxwell97 OTOH does not. Life as we knew it will cease to exist. Everything people thought was important and necessary like cell phones, the internet, amassing portfolio's of great wealth will pretty much go right out the window. The US Government won't have to shut down the internet or the banks. An EMP will do that job nicely for them.

    LE won't be refueling their cruisers unless they've got their own refueling station on site with hand powered pumps. The smart officers won't bother coming in to work assigned shifts. They will be hunkered down with their families protecting them. WROL will be the new mantra.

    Only hardened facilities with heavy lead shielding will have any semblance of normal (pre EMP) operations. How long that remains viable will depend on the Command structure.

    Life in post EMP America will like as not succumb to something akin to the movie The Road.
    Last edited by NONAME762; November 18th, 2013 at 06:25 PM.
    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NONAME762 View Post
    .
    .
    .
    Life in post EMP America will like as not succumb to something akin to the movie The Road.

    I've seen the movie, and I've read the book... the man and his boy survived 10 years after the attack... population in the country was near zero, and the event that precipitated it was not an EMP. Emp doesn't burn car's tires, etc.

    10 years of that sort of survival is of NO importance to me. Can you imagine his original stockpile of ammo to be left with 2 bullets after 10 years on The Road? One year post EMP is more likely to be something like the book One Second After. That's a survivable situation... and order would be restored... I'd even more prefer (to The Road, anyway) to survive ala Patriots... But don't see either happening in the short term.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    In the last few years a Grisly-Adams-type buddy of mine has been teaching me how to live off the land. Now I think more in terms of tools vs. provisions. Provisions will eventually run out anyway.
    You're going to run out eventually also.
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    I believe knowledge and location are going to be critical. In the cities you are going to have to deal with a population that is dependant on it's food being brought in. Short term it will get ugly. Long term will likely be abandoned due to lack of sufficient arable land to sustain the population.

    Suburbs will be a mixed bag. Lower population density so more crops can be grown per capita. These will also likely be "pass through" zones for city folk trying to escape. If the "first wave" is survived prospects are good.

    The more rural areas while they have sufficient land to self support with crops (maybe even surplus for sale or barter) will have the down side of being isolated and tempting targets for raids. They are going to have to deal with the folks running from the cities and then running out of supplies.

    I think the key is to either be so far removed for population centers that no one will have the supplies needed to venture out that far, or to be in an area where the population is dense enough to be mutually supporting but sparse enough that you have sufficient acreage to grow crops.

    As far as EMPs and vehicles go, yes the steel body of a vehicle does act as a Faraday cage to an extent. The problem with power grid and an EMP is that the power lines act as an antenna and a capacitor and collect the charge that overloads the equipent. The longer the wire, the more energy it collects.

    The first couple of days in population centers may be ok. Public safety and military have families too. If it becomes apparent that aid is not going to show up in the next seventy two hours or so I woud not expect them to be looking out for anyone until they get their families secure somewhere. Most likely I would expect to see folks in small units (patrol shifts etc.) to band together for mutual support. Once families are secure I would expect to see an attempt to reorganize and establish order. If they are unable to evacuate families outside the effected area I would not expect them to come back to work.
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    As for high population areas, I believe cops and national guard will cordon it off like they did after Katrina. They do the same thing after a tornado.

    They close down exit ramps, etc, and try to contain people.

    Everyone should have a certain amount of food, water, etc., to get you through the first wave of a collapse.

    Even our own government is planning for a collapse on a monumental scale.

    ppgrass said it right when he said knowledge is the key to survival: How to garden, how to preserve food, how to hunt and set traps, how to start a fire, how to purify water....

    You can't begin growing food immediately. You need enough to sustain your family until you harvest what you've planted.
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