I am NOT a "Sheepdog"

I am NOT a "Sheepdog"

This is a discussion on I am NOT a "Sheepdog" within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Mentioned here at DC in another thread about a younger guy I work with, mid 20s or so. He's shown a lot of interest in ...

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Thread: I am NOT a "Sheepdog"

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Hatrix's Avatar
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    Angry I am NOT a "Sheepdog"

    Mentioned here at DC in another thread about a younger guy I work with, mid 20s or so. He's shown a lot of interest in guns and learning to shoot, as well as getting his CHL. In our line of business(vehicle repossession) carrying is accepted and a good idea due to the unknowns that could present itself on any given repo. So I've sort of taken him under my wing so to speak, trying to steer him down the right path toward gun ownership, safety, taking more classes to learn proper handling and everything I'm not qualified to teach him etc. So today we were on a run and talking about guns and all the other good stuff that goes along with them and he started talking "what ifs." He asked what I would do if I were to be in a store and witness to a robbery in progress. He almost had a look of horror on his face when I told him I would probably do nothing unless the criminal in question turned his attention to me or my wife. His next words really set me off.

    "If you're not going to be a Sheepdog and protect the Sheeple than you have no reason carrying a gun.

    I was fuming at his comment and really wanted to cuss the guy out, but I restrained myself and calmly explained to him that EVERY person has the right to carry and protect themselves. That if they choose not to, it isn't my duty or responsibility to do it for them. I'm out make sure myself and my family are safe and nothing else. That I don't go looking for trouble, and don't plan on thrusting myself into it, unless the trouble comes looking for me. Then and only then would I do something to end said trouble.

    I am not a Sheepdog nor do I want to nor intend to be one. And personally I dislike the term all together.

    Master of the Tactical Back Flip
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    The sheepdog analogy is one that doesn't set to well with many, to be sure. I've had lots of sheeple tell me I shouldn't carry a gun. I don't let other people's opinions on the matter affect me one way or the other, since most don't know I am carrying, anyway.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
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    He seems to be living in a hero's fantasy. I personally don't have a problem with the term, and in fact protecting an extremely small and select group of people (wife and kids) is part of the reason I carry, but the moment somebody starts talking about "protecting the sheeple" is when I ask for the check, please.

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I am amazed by the posts about what to do in a mall shooting situation (or whatever), at the number of people who say that what they would do is run to find the shooter & confront him. Probably doing something stupid first, like yelling out a warning or command to him.

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    Senior Member Array NETim's Avatar
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    The problem I have with the "Sheep/Wolf/Sheepdog" analogy is it leaves me nowhere. I'm none of the above. Not sure why it's important to me other than I'm certainly not a wolf nor a sheep. Since I'm not going to war over someone else's money or necessarily do I see it as my job to protect others, I'm not a sheepdog.

    I'll just go with curmudgeon until something better comes along.
    Don't try to be fancy. Shoot for the center of mass. The world is full of decent people. Criminals we can do without. -- Jeff Cooper (1920–2006)

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    VIP Member Array ShooterGranny's Avatar
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    This young'n needs to learn what the law says he can and can't do! He needs to realize that he could very well become a criminal and wind up in jail if he intercedes when it is not lawful to do so.

    As far as "when" you or I would take action, within the law -- that is very personal and truly we do not know the real answer until (Lord forbid) a situation happens.

    The paid staff where I volunteer know that I carry. And I KNOW that they do NOT want me to ever unholster my gun if they "only" get robbed. If someone comes in and starts shooting or stabbing people with a knife I truly believe they would want me to use my gun - if I weren't totally freaked out to the point where I couldn't do it. And that, my friends can also happen.
    Getting old was not on my list of "things to do" in the Golden Years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    I am amazed by the posts about what to do in a mall shooting situation (or whatever), at the number of people who say that what they would do is run to find the shooter & confront him. Probably doing something stupid first, like yelling out a warning or command to him.
    Active shooters are much different than armed robbers. I won't be going to confront him, or holler out warnings.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The problem I have with Sheepdog, Sheepeople, whatever is that folks think that the entire world should be like them. Some folks think you are a coward if you do not go out of your way to "protect" folks. Others think that giving thier lives for a stranger is more important than staying a live and around for their family. Some folks think that if you don't spank your kids you are a weak parent. Some folks think that if you do spank your kids you are a tyrant.

    Live your life the way ya want, and don't do harm to others. Pretty simple for me

    BTW: From a philisophical point of view: those that use labels tend to judge others, whether they think they do or not. Last I heard I was not put on this earth to judge anyone.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    the wolf , sheep and sheep dog are born that way and they are 100 % of what they are.

    humans have choices and those choices are not usually black and white but rather somewhere along the gradient.

    you have kids ? if so they are your sheep until they grow and you are their sheep dog.

    you have family member or loved ones who won't/can't carry? you are their sheep dog when the unthinkable happens.

    you may choose to not intervene during a robbery and so would many others here at DC. i personally would probably choose to not act during a robbery but i don't think i can stand by and watch if prep was about to execute someone or about to abduct a child or rape a woman.

    so really most of us who carry are sheepdogs to a certain degree, the great majority of us will act in defense of another when a certain threshold is exceeded.
    “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The problem I have with Sheepdog, Sheepeople, whatever is that folks think that the entire world should be like them. Some folks think you are a coward if you do not go out of your way to "protect" folks. Others think that giving thier lives for a stranger is more important than staying a live and around for their family. Some folks think that if you don't spank your kids you are a weak parent. Some folks think that if you do spank your kids you are a tyrant.

    Live your life the way ya want, and don't do harm to others. Pretty simple for me

    BTW: From a philisophical point of view: those that use labels tend to judge others, whether they think they do or not. Last I heard I was not put on this earth to judge anyone.
    I do judge others. That is how I arrive at conclusions and select courses of action.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NETim View Post
    The problem I have with the "Sheep/Wolf/Sheepdog" analogy is it leaves me nowhere. I'm none of the above. Not sure why it's important to me other than I'm certainly not a wolf nor a sheep. Since I'm not going to war over someone else's money or necessarily do I see it as my job to protect others, I'm not a sheepdog.

    I'll just go with curmudgeon until something better comes along.

    By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."

    snip

    This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
    “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” Winston Churchill

  12. #12
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by technomonster View Post
    By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."

    snip

    This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
    It will be hard for you to quote Grossman and not get a like from me. A brief conversation with him was what got me over my aversion to the sheepdog references.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatrix View Post
    Mentioned here at DC in another thread about a younger guy I work with, mid 20s or so. He's shown a lot of interest in guns and learning to shoot, as well as getting his CHL. In our line of business(vehicle repossession) carrying is accepted and a good idea due to the unknowns that could present itself on any given repo. So I've sort of taken him under my wing so to speak, trying to steer him down the right path toward gun ownership, safety, taking more classes to learn proper handling and everything I'm not qualified to teach him etc. So today we were on a run and talking about guns and all the other good stuff that goes along with them and he started talking "what ifs." He asked what I would do if I were to be in a store and witness to a robbery in progress. He almost had a look of horror on his face when I told him I would probably do nothing unless the criminal in question turned his attention to me or my wife. His next words really set me off.

    "If you're not going to be a Sheepdog and protect the Sheeple than you have no reason carrying a gun.

    I was fuming at his comment and really wanted to cuss the guy out, but I restrained myself and calmly explained to him that EVERY person has the right to carry and protect themselves. That if they choose not to, it isn't my duty or responsibility to do it for them. I'm out make sure myself and my family are safe and nothing else. That I don't go looking for trouble, and don't plan on thrusting myself into it, unless the trouble comes looking for me. Then and only then would I do something to end said trouble.

    I am not a Sheepdog nor do I want to nor intend to be one. And personally I dislike the term all together.
    You missed a perfect learning experience for your young pup. Get over his comments and take the opportunity to give him a bit of your experience.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Your co-worker sounds like the type who just can't wait to use his firearm and hopes somebody gives him a reason to be able to use it as opposed to those of us who hope and pray we never have to.

    I'm assuming when we all made the decision to begin carrying, we did some soul searching and thought about the things we would or wouldn't be willing to do. Life is rarely as simple as black and white as a lot of grey area exists. I won't look down my nose at somebody who's content with being a "good witness" in any situation. We all must make that very personal decision about where our line in the sand is.
    gatorbait51 and Exacto like this.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    woof.
    gatorbait51 and d2jlking like this.
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