Stories About NSA Surveillance, Snowden Leaks Win Two Pulitzers:

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Stories About NSA Surveillance, Snowden Leaks Win Two Pulitzers:

    Stories about NSA surveillance, Snowden leaks win Pulitzers for two news groups
    By Brian Stelter, CNN

    Stories about NSA surveillance, Snowden leaks win Pulitzer Prizes - CNN.com

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    To quote a line from "Little Feat",
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Hard as this may be to understand, he can be both a criminal/traitor, and have done the American people a great service in exposing these heretofore secret programs directed against the American people. His traitorous behavior cannot be excused any less than that of the Executive branch's. It's the world we are living in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    Hard as this may be to understand, he can be both a criminal/traitor, and have done the American people a great service in exposing these heretofore secret programs directed against the American people. His traitorous behavior cannot be excused any less than that of the Executive branch's. It's the world we are living in.
    Your right, what he did was wrong and IMO he should face the consequences of his actions. Having said that the behavior of the EB is worse. Snowden did allow us to find out what they were doind and they should be held accountable. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything serious evry going to happen to the idiots on the hill.
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    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    He has a lot more that hasn't been released yet.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bama61 View Post
    Your right, what he did was wrong and IMO he should face the consequences of his actions. Having said that the behavior of the EB is worse ... and they should be held accountable.
    Agreed, that the disclosures cannot be seen in any other way by the government. It's a treasonous act, by those standards.

    But from the perspective of the citizenry who have been betrayed by those whom the revelations paint as the villains, one has to say the citizens have the potential to get quite a lot of value out of the information.

    As some have pointed out, only time will tell whether, on balance, that'll be a good thing or bad.

    I, too, would like to believe some things will change. But so long as we have a governing elitist few who disrespect the concept of liberty, the Constitution and its protections, we'll continue to get what we're getting: overreach, lies and deceit, above and beyond whatever basic value of governance is being performed.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; April 16th, 2014 at 12:24 AM. Reason: grammar, spelling
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    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    I was behind him 100% until he started talking about our overseas actions.

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    That's the rub, isn't it. I don't ink Vlad the Impailer would have taken him if he didn't have something valuable to offer, and our Government trying to spy on every American would not have impressed a man who sees that as everyday business. I doubt your average Russian would be very surprised the government is listening to their phone calls and intercepting their emails without regard to any "rights". I remain a little shocked, and quite shocked that this is still going on and this President is "considering" scaling back the program. It's a shameful and illegal 4th Amendment issue that is ongoing and unaddressed. Crimes against the American people should never be a secret, and those responsible should be held to account, but they are, and they won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    I was behind him 100% until he started talking about our overseas actions.
    And why on earth would you expect him to not divulge what he wants. He is going by his own morality. He did not "fall" into a situation where he said, "OMG! look at what the US government is doing!". The man purposely sought out a job to look for things that did not fit in his morality. He is not whistleblower that accidently found out things.

    Folks foget this part of him. He is a traitior and spy and whatever other names you can come up with. The man makes me sick. And for those that support him.....how much information do you think he is giving the Russians about what you would consider real National Security matters? Folks forgot all about that part.

    This is why folks like him need to be raked over the coals. I am in no way condoning some of the actions of the intelligence community.

    But to use a crude analogy: Snowden is to be dealt with as a traitor for the crimes he committed, regardless of the possible goodness that comes from it. Just lke a pehophile needs to be punished for his sickening crimes, even if he ratted out fellow pedohiles which got them off of the street.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And why on earth would you expect him to not divulge what he wants. He is going by his own morality. He did not "fall" into a situation where he said, "OMG! look at what the US government is doing!". The man purposely sought out a job to look for things that did not fit in his morality. He is not whistleblower that accidently found out things.

    Folks foget this part of him. He is a traitior and spy and whatever other names you can come up with. The man makes me sick. And for those that support him.....how much information do you think he is giving the Russians about what you would consider real National Security matters? Folks forgot all about that part.

    This is why folks like him need to be raked over the coals. I am in no way condoning some of the actions of the intelligence community.

    But to use a crude analogy: Snowden is to be dealt with as a traitor for the crimes he committed, regardless of the possible goodness that comes from it. Just lke a pehophile needs to be punished for his sickening crimes, even if he ratted out fellow pedohiles which got them off of the street.
    Like I said, I was behind him for exposing what our government is doing to us. They have no business recording data on everyone in the USA just because they can and it might, someday, be useful. Spin it however you wish I will never approve of any of the programs the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any other agency of the US Government are using to track citizens. Whistleblowers need to be protected and should not fear for their lives.
    Then he detailed our overseas operations. Hang the SOB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    Like I said, I was behind him for exposing what our government is doing to us. They have no business recording data on everyone in the USA just because they can and it might, someday, be useful. Spin it however you wish I will never approve of any of the programs the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any other agency of the US Government are using to track citizens. Whistleblowers need to be protected and should not fear for their lives.
    Then he detailed our overseas operations. Hang the SOB.
    No spin..just saying the way it. I said I do not condone some of the activities the IC did/have done. But a traitor is a traitor. Anyone that thought he would shut up after talking about domestic surveillance was/is living in a fairy tale. He most likely has given the Russians tons of info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And why on earth would you expect him to not divulge what he wants. He is going by his own morality. He did not "fall" into a situation where he said, "OMG! look at what the US government is doing!". The man purposely sought out a job to look for things that did not fit in his morality. He is not whistleblower that accidently found out things.

    Folks foget this part of him. He is a traitior and spy and whatever other names you can come up with. The man makes me sick. And for those that support him.....how much information do you think he is giving the Russians about what you would consider real National Security matters? Folks forgot all about that part.

    This is why folks like him need to be raked over the coals. I am in no way condoning some of the actions of the intelligence community.

    But to use a crude analogy: Snowden is to be dealt with as a traitor for the crimes he committed, regardless of the possible goodness that comes from it. Just lke a pehophile needs to be punished for his sickening crimes, even if he ratted out fellow pedohiles which got them off of the street.
    As a country we have lost any sense of morality. Outcome based education, you got to love it. When people are brought up in a moral vacuum how can you expect any different?

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    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    Some people may view this as something of a moral dilemma - does his exposure of bad practices (good) outweigh the his actions (bad)? Or, if a group like the EB is doing something bad, is it really wrong if someone does something bad to them? But, I'm not one of them and completely disagree with those types of arguments that try to rationalize his actions.

    What Edward Snowden was deliberately traitorous. He potentially (likely) divulged information and processes that help us find the bad guys (I won't go so far as to say, "keep us safe.") Even if some of the things he divulged were illegal, unconstitutional, immoral or unethical, that doesn't give him a pass. If he was merely a whistle blower and put one of these programs under public scrutiny I would feel a lot different about him. But he deliberately used privileged access to access one or more Sharepoint data repositories and make copies of all that data, and then went on a road show that currently leave him in Russia. It could be worse - he could have selected China. But, IMO his actions were not that of a whistle blower.

    But, even given my feelings and predisposition, it does not bother me that two news organizations received a Pulitzer Prize for Journalism ("public service"). They were just doing what they were supposed to do - report the news. It was fairly unbiased, which is pretty unusual anymore. So, I personally believe that it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The man purposely sought out a job to look for things that did not fit in his morality. He is not whistleblower that accidently found out things.
    So, accidentally stumbling on something then reporting it is the moral high ground, but deliberately going after something (if that was the case, in this case) cannot be? We've all heard of situations in which folks engage in drug dealing buys as informant "moles" in order to build a case, at the behest of "the authorities," and those are taken as the moral high ground.

    Am not condoning the divulging of truly damaging information that aids enemies.

    But I have a hard time lambasting the divulging of information on the harming of the citizenry by such "moles" (or whatever term we wish to use for them), no matter that it makes harming enemies tougher.

    True, that's called treason and traitorous actions, no matter how it's spun. Yet, the basic value is there. The risk is, whatever else might be divulged along with that information.


    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ... how much information do you think he is giving the Russians about what you would consider real National Security matters? Folks forgot all about that part.
    Is it known for certain just what was taken? Or is it known only what systems were there and what's possible to have been taken? I don't know, which is why I'm asking if anyone has concrete information indicating what was taken. (Though, I imagine it might be in NSA's best interests to not divulge such a list, so very likely the citizens don't know; key members of the Administration, though, might well know.) Point being: is someone who divulges things of value to the citizenry to be raked over the coals for what's feared was taken, or for what was taken?


    Am not condoning the surreptitious lengths to which some whistle blowers go. Am simply pointing out that it can just occasionally be the lesser of two evils. Hence the term "whistle blowing" existing, otherwise there'd only be "traitor" in the dictionary.

    Reality is, folks with such secrets (such as underhanded government hirelings acting unconstitutionally) don't want to get "blown." They take inordinate steps to protect themselves and their activities, up to and including getting to name the acts of finding out and divulging their activities "criminal" and specifying the punishments. (Sort of a judge, jury, executioner type role).

    In the end, it's essentially a matter of dates. Time will tell, IOW, whether what was taken included proofs of unconstitutional actions or items outside that area. And time will tell whether the things actually divulged will merely make it more difficult to treat our enemies (and allies) as enemies, or whether it truly gives "aid and comfort" to enemies.

    Interesting situation, that of a "whistle blower." No matter the methods used. Comes down to the comparative value obtained by the citizens in the divulging, and down to what exactly it is that has been taken and divulged ... not merely the fears of what might be done, alone.

    I'm on the fence, on this one. I believe what's been divulged so far regarding NSA, Executive and Congressional unconstitutional overstepping has extreme value to the citizens. But I also recognize that far more might have been taken and might actually be getting divulged to outright enemies at the extreme cost of the citizens. That latter part, none of us should ever condone. Depends on what was taken, what was divulged. Shouldn't depend merely on fears and labels, alone.

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    Well I'm not a very "deep" thinker, but I think he should get a Nobel prize. I think the govt is way out of control and he blew the whistle on tyranny.

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