Accused murderers want more freedom.

Accused murderers want more freedom.

This is a discussion on Accused murderers want more freedom. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Two home invaders who are on "home incarceration" want more freedom... Freedom to fly, freedom to go to tee ball games... The law requires that ...

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Accused murderers want more freedom.

    Two home invaders who are on "home incarceration" want more freedom... Freedom to fly, freedom to go to tee ball games...

    The law requires that they not be in jail awaiting trial more than 6 months... (that's wrong, right there)... So they were put on "home incarceration"...

    But, they want more freedom...

    Story here
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


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    Holder will agree.. heck he wants to give convicted Felons their rights back once time is served.... grrrrr .. he needs to be fired!~
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    Holder will agree.. heck he wants to give convicted Felons their rights back once time is served.... grrrrr .. he needs to be fired!~
    Excuse but these people are not convicted felons, they have not been convicted of anything. They have been charged with a crime. And this is the thing that gets my goat all of the time. People here are so for their rights and freedoms but are okay with other people's rights and freedoms being taken away.

    Under our system you are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But these people are being treated as guilty and held for half a year or more without any conviction. Now are they most likely guilty and scumbags? You better believe it, but if we don't defend the rights of everyone, we don't defend the rights of ourselves.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Excuse but these people are not convicted felons, they have not been convicted of anything. They have been charged with a crime. And this is the thing that gets my goat all of the time. People here are so for their rights and freedoms but are okay with other people's rights and freedoms being taken away.

    Under our system you are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But these people are being treated as guilty and held for half a year or more without any conviction. Now are they most likely guilty and scumbags? You better believe it, but if we don't defend the rights of everyone, we don't defend the rights of ourselves.
    I agree with your sentiments here...

    But, the system is so clogged, they cannot await a "speedy trial" in jail... so they get put on house arrest... a fair compromise, and one from which they deserve no more freedom to roam...

    In California, two such CONVICTED sexual predators committed serial rapes and murders while under supervised (read tracking ankle bracelet) parole.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I agree with your sentiments here...

    But, the system is so clogged, they cannot await a "speedy trial" in jail... so they get put on house arrest... a fair compromise, and one from which they deserve no more freedom to roam...

    In California, two such CONVICTED sexual predators committed serial rapes and murders while under supervised (read tracking ankle bracelet) parole.
    Why would two Convicted sexual predators ever be let out of jail?

    The key here is they are not convicted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Excuse but these people are not convicted felons, they have not been convicted of anything. They have been charged with a crime. And this is the thing that gets my goat all of the time. People here are so for their rights and freedoms but are okay with other people's rights and freedoms being taken away. Under our system you are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But these people are being treated as guilty and held for half a year or more without any conviction. Now are they most likely guilty and scumbags? You better believe it, but if we don't defend the rights of everyone, we don't defend the rights of ourselves.
    So what you are saying is that pre-trial confinement should not occur??.. nobody but you called them scumbags or presumed their guilt.

    They have been charged with murder commited during a home invasion and are on pre-trial confinement. If this happened in your community or family would you want the pre-trial confined to travel or attend kids sporting functions? Sounds to me like the DA has good charges for a violent crime but getting them into court is taking too long.

    I simply stated that Holder wants to allow "CONVICTED FELONS" to exercise all rights once they serve their time...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    So what you are saying is that pre-trial confinement should not occur??.. nobody but you called them scumbags or presumed their guilt.

    They have been charged with murder commited during a home invasion and are on pre-trial confinement. If this happened in your community or family would you want the pre-trial confined to travel or attend kids sporting functions? Sounds to me like the DA has good charges for a violent crime but getting them into court is taking too long.

    I simply stated that Holder wants to allow "CONVICTED FELONS" to exercise all rights once they serve their time...
    Pre-trial confinement makes since if it is a speedy trial, sitting in jail for half a year when you have not been convicted of something is not right.

    Next, should convicted felons be able to get all of their rights back? YES!!!!! Now should they get it right after they get out of jail? No. But if they get out and do what they are suppose to do, after some time they should be welcomed back into society. The problem with the current system is the felon label never goes away and so it makes one mistake nonredeemable.
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    There are different levels of 'accused'. A murderer who killed his victim in front of 100 people is accused until the trial actually happens; and you are accused of speeding until you pay your ticket or are convicted in traffic court. Either way, nothing has been proven until a court says so.

    The government should not be permitted to hold a US citizen indefinitely while awaiting trial because that is ripe for abuse. However, I believe that a grand jury should have the right to decide the levels of freedoms available to the accused while awaiting trial based on the seriousness of the crime and the apparent evidence available. Flight risk for home invaders who allegedly killed someone has to be somewhat high.

    As for felons getting their rights back, I believe that not all felonies are created equal. Some crimes are simply not forgivable even if time is served IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Pre-trial confinement makes since if it is a speedy trial, sitting in jail for half a year when you have not been convicted of something is not right.

    Next, should convicted felons be able to get all of their rights back? YES!!!!! Now should they get it right after they get out of jail? No. But if they get out and do what they are suppose to do, after some time they should be welcomed back into society. The problem with the current system is the felon label never goes away and so it makes one mistake nonredeemable.
    Trial should be speedy as with punishment.. who knows why this is dragging, prosecution or defense???

    As to Felons getting their rights back.. that is one subject that would be hard to change my views.
    Yes there are different types of felony offenses, and maybe, just maybe, possibly there are some that could warrant return of rights.. but if that be the case then that type of charge should be downgraded.
    Felony charges should be for crimes that fly in the face of normal human conduct ie serious crimes (violent and heinous crimes).
    List of felony crimes - FelonyGuide read this.. wow..
    "My son has been convicted of felony crimes 3 times, how can he get a license to buy a firearm?" really? sorry but in my opinion he forfeited that when he commited the first felony.

    The commission of a serious crime against society shows ones inability to rationlize consequences for actions..
    If one commit serious crimes against society (violating the rights of others) and is convicted by their peers, why should they ever get to enjoy the all the rights offered to law abiding citizens.. JMHO
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    Seems to be a "speedy trial" issue more than anything. I don't claim to know anything about the "rules" of a speedy trial, but if the accused has not waived their rights to a speedy trail and the state can't make its case in time, are not the charges dropped? Seems maybe the DA rushed to press charges without having the evidence needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    Trial should be speedy as with punishment.. who knows why this is dragging, prosecution or defense???

    As to Felons getting their rights back.. that is one subject that would be hard to change my views.
    Yes there are different types of felony offenses, and maybe, just maybe, possibly there are some that could warrant return of rights.. but if that be the case then that type of charge should be downgraded.
    Felony charges should be for crimes that fly in the face of normal human conduct ie serious crimes (violent and heinous crimes).
    List of felony crimes - FelonyGuide read this.. wow..
    "My son has been convicted of felony crimes 3 times, how can he get a license to buy a firearm?" really? sorry but in my opinion he forfeited that when he commited the first felony.

    The commission of a serious crime against society shows ones inability to rationlize consequences for actions..
    If one commit serious crimes against society (violating the rights of others) and is convicted by their peers, why should they ever get to enjoy the all the rights offered to law abiding citizens.. JMHO
    I think the only reason many Americans aren't felons is they never got caught... Many people do dumb and/or illegal things, especially in their youth. But, people change. If they did their time, they've paid their debt to society.

    As to murders, rapists, kidnappers, and the like, they should get the death penalty (not the 15 year wait version), so their rights won't be restored...
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    Oh and I forgot that some states are looking to allowing convicts to have tablets and I-pads while in jail for access to the internet..
    Why not allow their criminal peers to visit, heck give them private rooms with wifi and room service.. lets just save money, if they say they are sorry why even imprison criminals.. I mean they are sorry right?

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    sorry but in my opinion he forfeited that when he commited the first felony.
    Really, these crimes deserve that kind of treatment, Criminal Mischief ($500 or more, less than $15,000), computer crimes, Felony Trespass, Forgery, Perjury?
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    "In this case, we were waiting on the results of some testing being done and do to not having that back yet we had to have them released to comply with the law," Mull said.
    The law needs to be changed, granted they are only accused but a home invasion that results in the death of someone shows they are a danger to others, a 8X10 cell should be the only freedom they get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Really, these crimes deserve that kind of treatment, Criminal Mischief ($500 or more, less than $15,000), computer crimes, Felony Trespass, Forgery, Perjury?
    Who decides which Felony convict gets their rights restored?
    Once the floodgates are cracked open, the stream will become a flood..Where does it stop?

    The penalty exists, felony crimes are supposed to be SERIOUS crimes..
    Ok.. multiple DUI convictions and a conviction of DUI while driving with a DUI suspended license.. no accidents, no injuries.. they didn't hurt anybody..

    I do not feel felony convicts should share the same exact rights as someone who has not committed a serious crime.
    Let's say for the sake of the discussion, one has a felony offense on their record, we allow them to vote after time served. If we allow them to vote we should allow them to carry. If we allow them to carry we should allow them to have a top secret clearance, etc..

    Black and white.. you do this crime and get convicted here are the penalties.. and if the penalty is too severe and doesn't fit the crime then get a lawyer and get it expunged..
    but the best advice from me is don't like the time, don't do the crime..
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