The Gun Triangle
This is a discussion on The Gun Triangle within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is an actual conversation I (the concealed carrier) had today with my father (a sportsman/classic gun collector) and my mother (the gun novice) and ...
March 16th, 2007 02:20 AM
The Gun Triangle
This is an actual conversation I (the concealed carrier) had today with my father (a sportsman/classic gun collector) and my mother (the gun novice) and demonstrates brilliantly the difference between the three.
Disclaimer: My parents are wonderful, good people. Were it not for my father I probably wouldn't be the gun nut I am today. They were both born and raised and currently live in Wisconsin and therefore have never discussed concealed carry to any length, nor have they had to deal with it or worry about it. They've never discussed holsters, modes of carry, defensive handguns or anything of the like. In a way, that fact just adds to the humor of the conversation.
Let the story begin.
My mother called me today and, as usual, my father picked up the other line to listen in and talk to his baby girl. Through the course of the conversation, somehow, we got on the topic of money and I noted that we would be a little tight this year as we were doing a few things that required a little more of a cost than usual.
My mother, being her curious self, just had to ask what we had planned this year. Of course, I mentioned the Concealed Weapons course my husband and I are taking in the fall.
The conversation was on.
Dad says, "Concealed weapons course, huh? What are they going to teach you in that?"
"The legal ramifications of concealed carry, mindset, tactical scenarios, lots of shooting and more."
"Oh yeah, what's required for the class?"
"Well, I need a strong side holster..."
"Don't you already have a shoulder holster?"
"Yeah, but they require a strong side holster."
"What's the difference?"
"The holster has to be on your STRONG SIDE, meaning by my right hand."
"Oh, so no cross draw."
"No. Anyway, also, 600 rounds of ammunition..."
"600 ROUNDS?! Holy cow. That's a lot of ammunition. What are you going to be shooting?"
My mother, who has been silent all this time decided to chime in with, "What is that?"
My Dad responses, "It's the caliber," and to me he says, "Talk to your cousin, Josh. He's got that hand-loading setup. He could probably fix you up with 600 rounds of ammo real cheap."
"Uhh, no, Dad. No hand loaded rounds."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, because the instructors don't know how they've been loaded or how hot they are... It's just a bad idea."
"Yeah, but 600 rounds. That's like..." quickly doing the math in his head, "a lot of money."
"Yeah, it is."
My mom, "Now, why are you taking this class?"
"So that I can be a more effective concealed carrier."
She continues with, "And how long after this class until you are issued your permit to carry?"
"I already have my permit."
Both of my parents in unison, "YOU DO?"
"I thought you guys knew that. I thought we talked about it."
My mother asks, "When did this happen?" While my father says, "What are you carrying?"
"I got it over a year ago, and I carry a Kimber."
Mom, "What did you have to do to get the permit?"
To my mom, "I just went down to the court house and applied for one." and to my dad, "Yeah, a Kimber."
Mom, "What, did they do a background check or something?"
Dad, "What's it shoot?"
"Yeah, a background check and then I got it in the mail. Dad, it shoots .40."
Mom, "And they just gave it to you, just like that?"
Dad, "Well, .40 but what kind of gun is it?"
"It's a 1911."
Mom says, "What's that?" while Dad exclaims, "A 1911! What are you carrying a heavy clunky thing like that for?"
I try to explain over my father's excitement, "It's a model of semi-automatic. Dad, it's really not that bad. It's got an aluminum frame, three-inch barrel.. it's really rather small."
"But how do you carry it? With a round in the chamber with the hammer down so you have to cock it?"
"No. Cocked and locked."
Mom, "What's that mean?"
Dad, "You mean you carry it so that all you have to do is disengage the safety and pull the trigger?"
I say, "yeah" while Mom says, "WHAT?!?! Isn't that dangerous?"
Dad says, "What you really need is a .38 revolver. You know, one of the hammerless ones, five rounds."
"Hubby's got one, Dad, and I hate it. I hate the trigger pull."
Mom says, "What's that?"
Dad, "Oh, come on, it's not that bad."
I explain to my mom, "It's just how many pounds of pressure it takes to pull the trigger and the gun to fire. Dad, it's like ten plus pounds. That's heavy. My Kimber is only about three pounds."
"Yeah, but in a stressful situation, when you have your finger on that trigger the extra weight may do you some good so you don't accidentally shoot something you don't want to."
"Ha ha" I say, "That's what the class is for."
Dad has to concede, "True."
Mom says, "Now, is there any kind of regulation on the kind of gun you are allowed to carry in Pennsylvania?"
"No, I can carry anything I want. I can even carry as many guns as I want. If I can conceal five guns on me, I can carry five guns."
My mom expresses a worried and uneasy "Really?" while my Dad exclaims an excited and happy, "REALLY!"
Mom says, "I cant believe they'd let you do that without any training first." while Dad interjects with, "What does your husband carry?"
"He carries a Kimber in .40 as well, and sometimes the .38, too."
My mom says, "Why does he think he needs two guns?" as my Dad proclaims that I should take the .38.
My mom starts to ask when I made the decision to carry a weapon while my Dad asks what kind of ammo I use.
The conversation must have gone on like this for an hour or maybe even two. My father continued to ask me pointed questions about the guns I was carrying and how I was carrying them, while my mother worried herself with the legalities, if I really thought I could shoot in self-defense and pondering her baby girl having to shoot someone.
My dad explains that when he goes into restaurants he looks around for anything he can use as a weapon and has determined that salt shakers are a good start.
"Hit someone on the side of the head with one of those big glass babies," he says, "and they ain't getting up again."
My mother, in the mean time, tells of all the states they have traveled in and never had a problem and never needed a weapon in defense.
I explain to them that good sense, a good perimeter, and avoidance of dangerous situations would hopefully insure I never needed to use my gun but I wouldn't hesitate if I needed.
I don't know if it was just the difference of a Mother verses a Father talking about guns, but I got such a kick out of the conversation.
At the end my mother sighs and says, "I hope your husband realizes how lucky he is to have gotten a woman who would go along with all this stuff, because there are certainly a lot of gals out there who wouldn't."
I assure her that I think he knows and my Dad finishes up with, "I think you need to get a 'Western Holster' like Clint Eastwood."
Last edited by limatunes; March 16th, 2007 at 02:53 AM.
March 16th, 2007 02:20 AM
March 16th, 2007 02:29 AM
It looks like you did a good job. Parents can be a little tricky to explain it to.
"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
They are left in full possession of them."
Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
March 16th, 2007 02:34 AM
You got to love Mom's and Dad's. Its funny how a few years ago, they were getting a kick out of your innocence, and now that role is starting to reverse. It's funny how life works.
March 16th, 2007 02:36 AM
I got a kick out of just reading your post, limatunes...
...I don't know if it was just the difference of a Mother verses a Father talking about guns, but I got such a kick out of the conversation...
Thanks for posting your story...
"I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York
"They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper
March 16th, 2007 02:45 AM
Good on ya , for my daughters 21st BD . I got her her choice of pistol , the permit fees and training with someone who was not ME . Yes she does carry and if i had tried to train her most likely she would not have . When she finds that nice young lad , well she can protect him , and is smart enough not to mention that fact lol .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
March 16th, 2007 03:10 AM
Great post. I've had similar conversations with my parents. A little tricky at times to be sure!
March 16th, 2007 07:14 AM
Haha, Always love reading your posts lima, no exception here.
March 16th, 2007 07:16 AM
Great post ~ you wrote it well. It put us, the readers, right there in the middle of it. And it was funny! In a respectful, parental way of course.
"We must remember that one man is much
the same as another, and that he is best
who is trained in the severest school."
~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
March 16th, 2007 07:42 AM
I really enjoyed the dialog...I guess my wife and I are the 'old parents' now...er,...not guess...we are!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
March 16th, 2007 07:44 AM
May not be the response you were looking for, but that was a very entertaining post. Thanks!
EOD - Initial success or total failure
March 16th, 2007 08:10 AM
i love dad, with the western holster "like clint eastwood" rofl!!
March 16th, 2007 08:41 AM
It sure made me smile a lot but very insightful. Thanks for sharing !
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
March 16th, 2007 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by limatunes
That's too funny.
Last edited by JD; March 16th, 2007 at 12:19 PM.
March 16th, 2007 09:23 AM
I've had the discussion with some family members, but not others. None understand. All have mental block, where rationale thought is clouded by fear, misunderstanding or simple blustering disbelief in the need or the steps I've taken. All sorts of justifications come out during such discussions, none of which holds water. The whole litany of common "anti" arguments. No argument actually addresses the reality ... only the fear.
I'd actually be thankful for a simple, rational discussion like the one described in this thread. Now that would be a nice change. It would help them understand the thinking I've gone through, the preparations I make, the precautions I take, the reasons why it's necessary in this violent world ... including legal opinions that police have no specific duty to lift a finger for anyone, that Katrina-like disasters could result in tyrannical exercising of State power and turning a blind eye to Constitutional protections, etc. That would be nice. Then, perhaps they would take some thought, instead of meandering in blissful ignorance. Without thinking about these things, they'll not see the risks. I fear for each of them, but they won't have such discussions with me. It's sad.
Last edited by ccw9mm; March 16th, 2007 at 10:31 AM.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
March 16th, 2007 10:13 AM
That is great story on the interaction.
Nice parents and you have an in with your father to get him to carry a handgun. So work on him and he can carry the 38!
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
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