More nannyism in Ohio

More nannyism in Ohio

This is a discussion on More nannyism in Ohio within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/con...3_4G68IUU.html A teenage rite of passage -- getting a driver's license and cruising around with a carload of friends -- ends Thursday. Sixteen-year-olds can still ...

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Thread: More nannyism in Ohio

  1. #1
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    More nannyism in Ohio

    http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/con...3_4G68IUU.html

    A teenage rite of passage -- getting a driver's license and cruising around with a carload of friends -- ends Thursday.

    Sixteen-year-olds can still get a license, that Holy Grail of teenage freedom, but other than relatives, they'll be able to carry only one passenger at a time.

    With rare exceptions, they won't be able to drive at all between midnight and 6 a.m. And novice drivers cited for a moving violation, such as speeding, must deal with the ultimate humiliation -- having Mom or Dad with them again when they drive.

    Blame (or credit) House Bill 343, passed last year and signed into law by Gov. Bob Taft just before he left office in January. The law takes effect Friday.

    Chances that a teenage driver will be killed in a crash increase exponentially based on the number of passengers; chances are nearly three times as great when three passengers are in the car.

    In states with passenger and nighttime restrictions such as those in the new Ohio law, the death and injury rate is 20 percent lower for teenage drivers.

    Many students and parents don't seem to know about or understand the law.

    Addie Zavatsky, 16, a junior at Bishop Hartley High School, said she'll have to adjust her driving habits, at least until she turns 17.

    "I play volleyball and I do take people to games and practices," she said.

    "It's going to change a lot of things. People are going to have to take more cars and find different rides."

    She also said it will affect her on weekends if she is out after midnight and can't legally drive home.

    "Some people think it's unfair. We understand teenagers are in a lot of crashes, but there's just so many places you have to go with so many different people."

    Hartley, on the East Side, is like most other high schools when students begin leaving at 2:30 p.m. -- a chaotic sea of cars and buses.

    Jacob Swartz, 16, a sophomore at Hartley, said he's pretty clear about the law because his mother, Donna, has dug out the details.

    But he said most of his classmates don't know the law exists, much less what it will do.

    He questioned the provision that costs drivers with moving violations their privilege to drive alone.

    "I don't know why they would do that," he said.

    Bob Carlisle, a Hartley sophomore who turns 16 this month, has his temporary permit. He doesn't think the law will have much effect on him.

    "If it helps keep kids safe, then it's a good idea," he said.

    His mother, Mary Jo Carlisle, said it will be a bit inconvenient at times, but she likes the law because it will give young drivers a chance to mature without so many distractions.

    "Once they're with their peers, they tend to not pay attention," she said. "Not only do they put themselves at risk, but they put their friends at risk, too."

    State Sen. Gary Cates, R-West Chester, one of the prime sponsors, said the legislation was a direct response to a rash of fatal accidents in southwestern Ohio involving teenage drivers and passengers.

    "It may represent an inconvenience to some parents, but younger drivers need more time to learn how to drive without so many distractions."

    Passengers, more than cell phones or the radio, are the biggest distraction to drivers, Cates said.

    Joanna Herncane, spokeswoman for the Ohio Auto Club in Worthington, said more than 500,000 of Ohio's 7 million drivers are younger than 21.

    She agrees with Cates that teen drivers are easily distracted.

    "Everybody's piling in the back seat, the music is loud, people are talking and eating, and the cell phones are on," she said.

    Herncane said young drivers who work very late or very early can obtain permission from their employers to drive between midnight and 6 a.m.

    Patrol Lt. Tony Bradshaw said the law should be a wakeup call to young drivers who "don't know the importance of paying attention."

    Law enforcement can't stop young drivers solely because an officer believes they are violating the passenger limit. However, they can be cited if they are pulled over for another violation, such as running a stop sign or a burned-out tail light, Bradshaw said.

    Donna Swartz, mother of Jacob Swartz, said the restrictions in the law may inconvenience some families, make car-pooling difficult or prevent younger drivers from taking friends to school or sports events.

    "But it's a fairly short period of time," she said. "I can't imagine there are too many parents who don't see the wisdom in it."
    Now I am all for better teenage drivers and less teenage fatalities. But this type of legislation bugs me. It restricts privileges for one year until the driver is 17, they can only have one passenger, can't drive between midnight and 6 in the morning unless to school or work, and if they get a moving violation they can't drive alone any more. In Ohio teens can already get their temps liscense at 15 1/2, and need a parent with them till they complete requirements and turn 16 and can get their liscense.

    This type of law just seems like more nannyism to me and the government wanting to be everyones mom. No, it doesn't really effect me since I already drive, but it will effect my younger brother and parents. I was a moronic driver for the first year I had my liscense, thought I was the best driver on Earth, then one day I had an epiphany that I was a moron and needed to settle down. I was lucky and only had one minor wreck during that time period. But reducing the passengers wouldn't have changed that. The safest driving was usually everyone in one car, the worst was 3 or 4 cars and all of us showboating in a pack. I didn't obey my parents curfew usually, and probably wouldn't of followed the States, thinking "They won't catch me"

    Plus imagine all the mad parents when the excuse gets used constantly "Well, I was gonna come home but we lost track of time and then it was too late to get home by midnight so I thought I would just spend the night there." And more work for the police, even though they can't just pull someone over because they look young, and it needs to happen with another stop already occuring. Don't you think a ticket for one violation will make the kid's night bad enough, instead of say 3, one for speeding, one for driving home at 1230, and one for having his 3 friends in the car.

    Nannyism bothers me. The government isn't my mother, and they should stop trying to act as such.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor


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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    I almost lost two nieces due to them being in a car at three in the morning with four other teenagers. They were speeding and hit a car that was turning due to the driver not paying attention. This happened in Akron Ohio.

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    Tom, I lost a couple friends in high school due to traffic accidents, and had several more severly injured due to crashes. Teen driving can be a problem.

    I think the biggest problem is the lack of training required for them before they are allowed to drive, and their own inexperience, which obviously can't be fixed until they drive more.

    In Ohio for someone under 18, the requirements for a drivers liscense are to get the temps, drive 50 hours with a parent in the car, about 25-30 hours of driving school, of which maybe 10 hours is in car driving, and then pass the written and driving test after they turn 16. You don't even have to be able to parallel park to pass the driver's test, just do a "maneuverability test" which is much easier to do.

    Should something be done to help make teens better drivers, yes, but this doesnt seem like the right way to go about it. 15 1/2 is awfully young to hand someone a 3500 pound weapon which is rather complex to operate, and then with under 100 hours of training in it, they are let loose without supervision. Usually going after the root of the problem works better than whittling away at the periphery.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    I'm all for revoking all D/L's for those who cannot score at least a 95 on a standard IQ test, vision, hearing and reflex should be tested annually.
    The roads are to crowded as is, I'd be OK with limiting drivers to 21 and older unless going to work or afterschool stuff, no joyriding.

    And they all get Geo Metros with a governor on them for their first car. If they do OK with that, then they get a big boy car.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I'll admit it, when I was 16ish I was invincible and the best driver on the road, whether it be a motorcycle or car! My worst driving was done while alone. Having more people in the car actually caused me to slow down & pay attention, too much noise & too many complaints about my driving. Same way with a lot of others I grew up and rode with.

    I really do not care for this "mothering" attitude that seems to be infecting more & more politicians.

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    I'm not so hot on big brother playing nanny either. What I do think is most drivers here are woefully short on good basic driving skills. Drivers training is a joke and there is a prevailing attitude that a drivers license is somehow a civil right. It's not!

    I don't see a need for more restrictions but for far better training requirements. Had a friend years ago who got a license somewhere overseas and I can't remember where now. But, at any rate, he had to take and pass tests for urban driving, suburban driving, inclement weather driving, accident avoidance skills and highway driving. While he said it was a pain and took months to get through it all he was a much better driver for it.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    kpw
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    Sorry to say but most of it seems to make sense to me. I lost a few friends in HS from car accidents and from what I can recall, everyone of them were in cars with multiple passengers. I have been hit by 3 cars in 23 years of driving. Only one of those was a driver over 18 (he was 20 and DUI). A 16 yo. girl with her friends and a 17 yo. boy with his friends. Both failed to stop at a red light because they were distracted.
    I have a 15 yo. that can't wait to get her DL. I'm a pretty nervous guy right now. PA has had junior license rules about driving after midnight for years. Not sure what the problem with that would be. Except maybe for work, my 16 yo. kids won't be out past midnight anyways.
    I really like the Geo Metro w/govenor idea!!!

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    Pretty much the same boat here... While I'm against the nanny state, I'm not sure this really qualifies. We already let kids drive at relatively young ages - forcing them to get some more experience before we let them drive late, with a car full of friends, seems pretty tame.

    And, to chime in with everyone elses stories: I've been in 3 accidents in my 20 years of driving. One was my fault, and I was a teen-ager. The other two were both teen-aged drivers, distracted by passengers; one ran a red light and T-boned me, and the other just changed lanes without looking, and I happened to be in the space he tried to enter.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    what good does it do to prohibit driving after midnight? Aren't there fewer cars on the road then for them to hit?

    As far as prohibiting a certain number of people in the vehicle, it seems to me that that will just increase the number of cars and inexperienced drivers on the road at any given time. A "pack" of testosterone-crazed teenage drivers recreating their favorite car chase scares me a lot more than a single car whose driver would likely not be paying any more attention to the road than if he were by himself.

    For anyone who thinks these are good ideas, good for you. Apply them to your kids if you truly believe it will help. But I take issue with applying them to everyone's kids under a law.

    Just to draw an analogy, how is this different from saying that because some people don't like black rifles, and would never own one, that nobody should be able to own one?

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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Pretty much the same boat here... While I'm against the nanny state, I'm not sure this really qualifies. We already let kids drive at relatively young ages - forcing them to get some more experience before we let them drive late, with a car full of friends, seems pretty tame.
    +1. Teens must accumulate driving experience to be competitent drivers, but we all can do without them driving less than fully focused on the road after midnight due to the distraction of a carload of other teens.
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    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    Just to draw an analogy, how is this different from saying that because some people don't like black rifles, and would never own one, that nobody should be able to own one?
    That's not a good analogy and this isn't a 2A issue. There are many that do say that and they have that right.

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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Remember the law of unintended consequences. What this will do is put MORE under qualified teen age car drivers out on the road. Talking on cell phones to friends in other cars (or worse, texting). Driving like banshees between 11:30 and midnight to get where ever they are going before the witching hour. And they won't be driving Geo Metros, they will be driving SUV's or other full sized cars, because they are bigger, safer, and parents WILL give their kids the vehicles that will increase their chance of surviving a crash.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    That's not a good analogy and this isn't a 2A issue. There are many that do say that and they have that right.
    yes, they do, just like parents have the right to impose restrictions on their kids, but do they have the right to turn their beliefs into laws that affect everyone, whether they think the same way or not?

    I drew the 2A analogy because people here are familiar with it, and it's a perfectly reasonable analogy of people using less-than-thought-out laws to restrict other people while never actually solving the problem that existed in the first place.

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    kpw
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    PA has had the midnight curfew for junior drivers since way before I started driving. Unless it's work related, I'm more than comfortable with kids being off the streets at midnight even moreso on weekends when the streets are loaded with drunks. Many localities are passing midnight curfews as it is because too many parents don't do their job. Not only do I not want my kids driving a car packed with other kids, I don't want them to be a passenger in one either. There has been some talk in the last few years of changing the driving age to 18. That might be next if things keep continuing the way they are.

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    There has been some talk in the last few years of changing the driving age to 18. That might be next if things keep continuing the way they are.
    I would be more comfortable and supportive of raising th driving age to 18 then I am of adding a bunch of extra restrictions that slowly take away what the kids can do. Changing the age to 18 gets more at the root of the problem, that being the inexperience and immaturity issues. Although the vocal backlash from all those too young to vote might be a little harsh.
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