VT Mindset

VT Mindset

This is a discussion on VT Mindset within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It might be a bit early to discuss this, but I am sure I am not the only one who has given it a couple ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: VT Mindset

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258

    VT Mindset

    It might be a bit early to discuss this, but I am sure I am not the only one who has given it a couple of thoughts. Also, we are still lacking lots of information and I am depending on what has come out so far.

    As far as I can understand, nobody attempted to attack the shooter. Why? I know he had weapons but according to the accounts so far, he had to stop to reload. Have we trained our kids to be so submissive that we condemned them to be walking targets?

    I personally think that individual actions could have made the difference. Liviu Librescu, a profesor and Holocaust Survivor, blocked the door with his body, paid the price with his life, but in exchange he saved several students from being murdered.

    Your thoughts?
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,123
    They've been led to believe it was a safe place. They didn't have a personal plan. They'd probably never played the "what if" game that a lot of us do. They were taken by surprise, denied the very right of self defense by the administration of their campus and state government. By the time most could have figured out what was going on, and what they could do it was pretty much over.
    I can only imagine the total mind numbing fear they must have felt. It woke me up a few times last night.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    I can't even comprehend not fighting back. The idea that you'd just stand there and die doesn't even compute in my brain. I'm pretty saddened that people did just that... If there's one fundamental truth in this world, it's that you can always fight back. Sometimes, the odds might be totally against you, but you can always fight back.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,575
    MIGGY, you took the words out of my mouth.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  5. #5
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Its hard to put yourself there until you have been there. Everyone will imagine themselves the hero, but more than half would be frozen in fear when it comes down to it.
    I think a lot has to do with the false sense of security brought on by the silly rules and misconceptions. As I understand things, there was not a whole lot of reaction time for the students to react. There was no warning, even though he was on the loose for hours.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    1,443
    I keep wondering "what if a teacher would have been armed" Would it have made a difference?
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    569
    Pure speculation on my part but I can imagine the students sort of falling into the "don't pick me" category. Don't do anything to stand out and be "called on". If they attract the shooter's notice, perhaps they will be next.

    I hope I never have to find out what I would do in a situation like this, but I'd like to think I would do something. Being armed would be ideal, of course, but that's not always the case.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Its hard to put yourself there until you have been there. Everyone will imagine themselves the hero, but more than half would be frozen in fear when it comes down to it.
    Agreed. I always hope I would do the right thing, but I don't KNOW. Fear is the second greatest motivator for people to do anything.. Sadly fear can be a motivator for you to do nothing as well.

    To quote a post I put in the other thread...

    A lot of people will fight to the death if attacked, but some won't because I think they lack being fed that fire that says, "What this person is doing needs to be stopped, NOW!"

    Instead they get fed things like, "Do what he says." "Don't threaten him." "Talk calmly."

    It's a well-known truth that people fall back on their training in times of stress.

    If you grew up being taught to give a BG what he wants so that he doesn't hurt you.

    I think if people were taught from little on up that if there is a threat, meet it with a threat of your own, in that time of stress a GOOD majority of those people would act on that teaching. A few would still hold back in fear, but I believe the people who did act on how they were taught would successfully bring down a threat quickly.

    We are taught not to get involved, to look the other way, not to help, not to bother anyone.. Look how it's paid off.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,570
    I'm guessing he killed males on sight and executed females once he had herded them into lines.
    He likely had a grudge after his relationship went bad.

    As a male I would have a slim chance of being a hero and/or saving myself, I would have to catch him concentrating on someone else.
    As a female in this hypothetical scenario I would have more time, and once he shot the first in line I would know I had nothing to lose.

    I would tear him apart with my bare hands. Or die trying.

    But hindsight is 20/20, and I wasn't there.

  10. #10
    Member Array Muzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    ...As far as I can understand, nobody attempted to attack the shooter. Why? I know he had weapons but according to the accounts so far, he had to stop to reload. Have we trained our kids to be so submissive that we condemned them to be walking targets?...
    Yep, that's pretty much it. "Its wrong to fight. Just do what the agressor says - give them whatever they ask. Don't stoop to their level." I can't imagine any parent allowing their children to have those beliefs fed to them for digestion, but I am afraid that is part of 'the problem' in this case. Its not fair to say that no one attempted to stop him (I know that's not what you are saying, I am stating that it is not what I am saying), but its clear that not near enough people tried to. A statement by a witness I JUST heard as I am typing this: "He stopped to reload, but none of us could stop him because we were either hit, or scared out of our minds". Kids today aren't allowed to even think about being riteously combative. I'm not saying anything bad about any of those kids, I don't know any of them personally, but by and large, young people today are having the 'fight' portion of their 'fight or flight' response taken away from them before they even know its there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    ...I personally think that individual actions could have made the difference. Liviu Librescu, a profesor and Holocaust Survivor, blocked the door with his body, paid the price with his life, but in exchange he saved several students from being murdered.

    Thoughts?
    IMO, I'd say Mr. Librescu had felt the anguish of being helpless before, and even at his advanced age (possibly a child during the Holocaust ?), I think he made the concious decision that he was those kids' teacher - that they were now his responsibility in the gravest of ways - and that he would not allow himself to be helpless again. He had evidently been exposed to killers before, and thought that the only hope was to do something, no matter what it was. I can think of far worse ways to leave this life.

  11. #11
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,489
    I agree that the mind set should be Do Something

    Anything you do will be better than nothing, try to run, jump out of a window, attack the guy, but DO SOMETHING

    Indecision freezes most people because they worry about doing the wrong thing. We need to learn to act and then worry about what we should have done later.

    We also need to be able and willing to accept any results good or bad that our actions bring. I believe it is our culture that does need to be changed, how it is to be changed I don't know.

    But we as a society need to be responible for our actions or inactions
    and teach our children that.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Its hard to put yourself there until you have been there. Everyone will imagine themselves the hero, but more than half would be frozen in fear when it comes down to it.
    I think a lot has to do with the false sense of security brought on by the silly rules and misconceptions. As I understand things, there was not a whole lot of reaction time for the students to react. There was no warning, even though he was on the loose for hours.
    I really want to disbelieve that the flight or fight response has been so conditioned out of everyone. Granted, I've been shot at before and mortared, so maybe I'm speaking from an angle that is different. I literally can't comprehend that someone would just stand there and let themselves be executed.

    I try to avoid being cynical, but if that's the attitude of Americans now, our country truly is in a world of hurt.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  13. #13
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    I really want to disbelieve that the flight or fight response has been so conditioned out of everyone. Granted, I've been shot at before and mortared, so maybe I'm speaking from an angle that is different. I literally can't comprehend that someone would just stand there and let themselves be executed.

    And there you have it... you understand things differently as you have been "there".
    The first time I was there, I was frozen solid and needed a swift kick to get moving, the second time I was better prepared.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    And there you have it... you understand things differently as you have been "there".
    The first time I was there, I was frozen solid and needed a swift kick to get moving, the second time I was better prepared.
    It's definitely an individual thing I suppose. However, in my experience not many people froze up at all. Granted, I'm talking about Marines and not sheeple at a college. Sigh, it's really sad.

    You'd think someone would have found the will to resist out of 20...
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  15. #15
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,900
    Yes, Marines and others in the combat arms MOS seem to have it installed before hand.
    "Just blame Sixto"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Do I have the right mindset on this?
    By ozzyzig87 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: October 8th, 2009, 10:40 AM
  2. The survivalist mindset
    By SubNine in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: May 26th, 2008, 01:44 PM
  3. Security Mindset
    By takurpic in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: March 25th, 2008, 12:45 PM
  4. Some Just Will Never Have The Mindset
    By QKShooter in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: September 28th, 2006, 12:11 AM
  5. Mindset
    By P95Carry in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: April 17th, 2006, 04:51 AM

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors