Is this really a solution??

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Thread: Is this really a solution??

  1. #1
    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    Is this really a solution??

    When you can't beat the gangs, just sue them out of existence. After all, they are going to listen to the law...

    Cities Sue Gangs in Bid to Stop Violence
    By ANGELA K. BROWN (Associated Press Writer)
    From Associated Press
    July 30, 2007 6:38 AM EDT
    FORT WORTH, Texas - Fed up with deadly drive-by shootings, incessant drug dealing and graffiti, cities nationwide are trying a different tactic to combat gangs: They're suing them.

    Fort Worth and San Francisco are among the latest to file lawsuits against gang members, asking courts for injunctions barring them from hanging out together on street corners, in cars or anywhere else in certain areas.

    The injunctions are aimed at disrupting gang activity before it can escalate. They also give police legal reasons to stop and question gang members, who often are found with drugs or weapons, authorities said. In some cases, they don't allow gang members to even talk to people passing in cars or to carry spray paint.

    "It is another tool," said Kevin Rousseau, a Tarrant County assistant prosecutor in Fort Worth, which recently filed its first civil injunction against a gang. "This is more of a proactive approach."

    But critics say such lawsuits go too far, limiting otherwise lawful activities and unfairly targeting minority youth.

    "If you're barring people from talking in the streets, it's difficult to tell if they're gang members or if they're people discussing issues," said Peter Bibring, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. "And it's all the more troubling because it doesn't seem to be effective."

    Civil injunctions were first filed against gang members in the 1980s in the Los Angeles area, a breeding ground for gangs including some of the country's most notorious, such as the Crips and 18th Street.

    The Los Angeles city attorney's suit in 1987 against the Playboy Gangster Crips covered the entire city but was scaled back after a judge deemed it too broad.

    Chicago tried to target gangs by enacting an anti-loitering ordinance in 1992 but the U.S. Supreme Court struck it down in 1999, saying it gave police the authority to arrest without cause.

    Since then, cities have used injunctions to target specific gangs or gang members, and so far that strategy has withstood court challenges.

    Los Angeles now has 33 permanent injunctions involving 50 gangs, and studies have shown they do reduce crime, said Jonathan Diamond, a spokesman for the Los Angeles City Attorney's Office.

    The injunctions prohibit gang members from associating with each other, carrying weapons, possessing drugs, committing crimes and displaying gang symbols in a safety zone - neighborhoods where suspected gang members live and are most active. Some injunctions set curfews for members and ban them from possessing alcohol in public areas - even if they're of legal drinking age.

    Those who disobey the order face a misdemeanor charge and up to a year in jail. Prosecutors say the possibility of a jail stay - however short - is a strong deterrent, even for gang members who've already served hard time for other crimes.

    "Seven months in jail is a big penalty for sitting on the front porch or riding in the car with your gang buddies," said Kinley Hegglund, senior assistant city attorney for Wichita Falls.

    Last summer, Wichita Falls sued 15 members of the Varrio Carnales gang after escalating violence with a rival gang, including about 50 drive-by shootings in less than a year in that North Texas city of 100,000.

    Since then, crime has dropped about 13 percent in the safety zone and real estate values are climbing, Hegglund said.

    Other cities hope for similar results.

    San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera sued four gangs in June after an "explosion" in gang violence, seven months after filing the city's first gang-related civil injunction.

    Fort Worth sued 10 members of the Northcide Four Trey Gangsta Crips in May after two gang members were killed in escalating violence, said Assistant City Attorney Chris Mosley.

    "Our hope is that these defendants will be scared into compliance just by having these injunctions against them," Mosley said.

    However, some former gang members say such legal maneuvers wouldn't have stopped them.

    Usamah Anderson, 30, of Fort Worth, said he began stealing cars and got involved with gangs as a homeless 11-year-old. He was arrested numerous times for theft and spent time in juvenile facilities.

    Anderson says if a civil injunction had been in place then, he and his friends would have simply moved outside the safety zone.

    "That's the life you live, so you're going to find a way to maneuver around it," said Anderson, a truck driver who abandoned the gang life about seven years ago and has started a church to help young gang members.

    The ACLU and other critics of gang injunctions favor community programs. The Rev. Jack Crane, pastor of Truevine Missionary Baptist Church in Fort Worth, is helping Anderson's group provide gang members with counseling, shoes and other resources needed to help them escape that life.

    "We don't want to lose another generation," Crane said.

    Some residents in the Fort Worth safety zone say they feel better with the injunction in place.

    Phoebe Picazo, who recently moved to the city to care for her elderly parents, said she hears gunfire almost every night.

    "This has always been a quiet community with a lot of seniors, but now we're having to keep our doors locked," Picazo said. "With the injunction, I feel better for my folks."
    Last edited by Sonic Misfit; July 30th, 2007 at 12:18 PM. Reason: edited to remove advertising.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Ridiculous. Why can't people wrap their minds aroung the idea that criminals don't follow the law.

    It's not a solution. It's just another step towards more control over people's everyday lives, all in the name of "safety and security", neither of which will exist.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    Criminals do not care about the law or what it represents. Sheepel can not grasp the reality that there are people in the world with a mindset contrary to their own. Therefore, we have two diametrically opposed views that can not be reconciled, and two groups of people that either can not or will not communicate on the same level. To paraphrase Dickens, God help us every one.
    One should never confuse good fortune with good training.
    Illegitimus Non Carborundum.
    In God we trust.

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    Seems it is just a way of creating a crime where one did not exist before. Ostensibly to give police a reason to arrest and charge people who are standing around talking, riding around together in a car together because they are a member of a gang.

    Today we do it to gang bangers because we don't like them and they are bad people.

    Tomorrow we do it to which group?
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  6. #5
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    Yea, that'll work!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  7. #6
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    I agree with Scott.

    It is creating a crime for them to be charged with and a reason to stop and question known gang bangers.

    The genearl pop. will not protest this because they do not equate a gangbangers rights to be equal to theirs.

    Sheeple do not realize that they need to protect everyones rights as they are garrunteed under the Consitution.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Tinfoil hat warning!

    Below is a cut and paste from our(KS) atty. general website of what a street gang is. If you take it to the extreme, if by chance any two members of this forum had a misdemeanor arrest, even for popping fireworks in the wrong place, DC is a street gang.

    Call me crazy, but maybe more enforcement, less new laws?





    (j) any felony committed for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association
    with any criminal street gang, with the specific intent to promote, further or assist
    in any criminal conduct by gang members. As used in this subsection, 'criminal
    street gang' means any organization, association or group, whether formal or
    informal:
    (1) Consisting of three or more persons;
    (2) having as one of its primary activities the commission of one or more
    person felonies, person misdemeanors, felony violations of the uniform
    controlled substances act, K.S.A. 65-4101 et seq., and amendments
    thereto, or the comparable juvenile offenses, which if committed by an
    adult would constitute the commission of such felonies or misdemeanors;
    (3) which has a common name or common identifying sign or symbol; and
    (4) whose members, individually or collectively engage in or have
    engaged in the commission, attempted commission, conspiracy to commit
    or solicitation of two or more person felonies, person misdemeanors,
    felony violations of the uniform controlled substances act, K.S.A. 65-4101
    et seq., and amendments thereto, or the comparable juvenile offenses,
    which if committed by an adult would constitute the commission of such
    felonies or misdemeanors, or any substantially similar offense from
    another jurisdiction; or
    (k) use of pyrotechnics, pyrotechnic devices or pyrotechnic materials in violation
    of K.S.A. 2005 Supp. 31-170, and amendments thereto.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Sounds like a slippery slope....

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    Sounds like a slippery slope....
    Agreed!

    How long until this expands to include OTHER law abiding activities for the 'safety of the public'.

    Laws only effect the law-abiding!

    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficient....The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."-Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, in a dissenting opinion in Olmstead v. U.S., 277 US 438, 479 (1927)

    "They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.” - Patrick Henry

    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus, Roman Historian 55-117 A.D.

    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations" - James Madison

    "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose that freedom. And the irony of it is that, if it is comfort or security that it values more, it will lose that too." - Somerset Maugham

    "Necessity [or desperate times] is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt before the British House of Commons
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Well now aint that dumb. First San Francisco takes the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, then they want to sue the guys that they let keep guns.
    At least Texas wants and lets its citizens to protect themselves.



    Remember****************************************** ***
    GOOD GUN CONTROL Is Being Able To Hit Your Target!

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