National Park Service, special team called American Gestapo

This is a discussion on National Park Service, special team called American Gestapo within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; As has been said... If this story is true. I have a real problem with that Gestapo word, .Let's see what happens when the Investagation ...

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Thread: National Park Service, special team called American Gestapo

  1. #16
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    As has been said... If this story is true. I have a real problem with
    that Gestapo word, .Let's see what happens when the Investagation is done, And let the chips fall where they may.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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  3. #17
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    waiting for investigation

    No matter how one dances around a thing, it is what it is.
    It is not wrong to be Right
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    That makes me soooo mad....
    ExSoldier , I agree 100%
    I have nothing but the very highest respect for local and state LEO - I sure wouldn't want to walk in their shoes.
    But when it comes down to the level of the batf pukes and park service (and some fbi), I have nothing but contempt. They seem to go out of their way to earn that disrespect. Those will be the ones that kick in your door in the middle of the night , take your firearms and religious material, and haul you off to a re-education camp - Camp Hillary. Rant over - whew!

  5. #19
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    Lightbulb Not Something I Take Lightly!

    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaone View Post
    I have a real problem with that Gestapo word.
    I have taught history for 18 years. My best friend from high school (he remains so today) and former commanding officer is a Jew. As a Born Again Christian I recognize that Israel is home to the people of the Living God and I envy them, just a bit. Trust me when I say that I do not apply that murderous label lightly. But as somebody here just remarked: It is what it is. The BATFE has earned the moniker. And then some.

    Let's not forget Ruby Ridge or Waco. Well, Ruby Ridge was the Marshal Service but FBI Sniper Lon Horiuchi committed cold blooded murder of a woman holding an infant in her arms and was INDICTED for that crime by a state court. The Clintonista's got it removed to Federal Court and hence dismissed. What is it when the Federal Officers charged with our security are no longer held to the same standards? A police state?

    Waco was a BATFE Operation until it went sour about one minute into the operation. Then the FBI came riding to the rescue. Btw, Lon Horiuchi was there too. Giving tactical advice to the on site snipers. Moreover, USSOCOM was there doing the same thing. Has anybody heard of posse commitatus?

    Look, I'm very sensitive to the feelings of the awesome LEO's we have here on the forum and the 99.999% of all LEOs nationwide who do the job and lay their lives on the line and maybe make the ULTIMATE sacrifice. God Bless them one and all. I pray for our LEOs daily.

    But let's also acknowledge that more and more of our law enforcement and military are being prepped by our public education system (12 years worth of identical seamless indoctrination that guns are inherently evil and so is anyone outside of the "Brotherhood" who owns a gun) to create and regulate a dictatorship. When people join the Brotherhood because of the power provided by the badge in combination with job perks like medical insurance and a good retirement plan, therein lie the seeds of destruction.

    Again, not all LEOs are like this. Probably only a miniscule minority. But there are enough to start turning the public's perception of "Officer Friendly" into "Jack Booted Thug." IMHO that is a very bad thing.

    Back during the early years of the Clinton administration I was having a conversation with some "old army buddies" who were working at the time for the 10th SF when that outfit was stationed at Fort Devins. The most common complaint was the creeping totalitarianism of gun control. My friends were fairly senior officers who have since retired. But then, they admitted to me that some folks in SOF forces from all branches were having semi-serious discussions as to when it becomes appropriate even necessary to take up arms against the Federal government. Remember Special Forces mission is to train indigenous personnel to do exactly that....overseas.

    One of these fine men sighed and with deadly seriousness said quietly: I would surely HATE to take the life of an honest cop who felt he was only doing his job. But if he's coming to take my guns.....I'll get over it. My blood ran cold. This was (at that time) a MAJOR in the US Army! According to the group his sentiments were commonly held in SpecOps. It made me feel immeasurably better that I wasn't alone.

    NOW...FLASH FORWARD to the KATRINA fiasco. The nightmare expressed by those old Green Beanies.... came true. A lawfully elected government entity violated their oaths and the US Constitution and went door to door, seizing the firearms of law abiding citizens. Nobody resisted.

    Well, when the thugs body slam an old lady and punch her out, it tends to put a damper on any backtalk. But it happened. Right there on CNN who was providing a nice cheering section. The national guard troops brought in from states with harsh anti-gun laws on the books made mention of a errie similarity to what they felt in Iraq. But the fact that it was home soil made it worse. They did it anyway.

    The UCMJ has a sure and certain punishment for failure to follow any direct or lawful order from the chain of command. But there is also a consequence for following orders that break the law or violate the US Constitution. You'd better be SURE, but it is a duty to refuse such an order as well. But that won't happen. WHY NOT? Well we go back to the source which is the curriculum of the public schools that inculcated the NWO mindset to begin with. Here endeth the lesson.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I have taught history for 18 years. My best friend from high school (he remains so today) and former commanding officer is a Jew. As a Born Again Christian I recognize that Israel is home to the people of the Living God and I envy them, just a bit. Trust me when I say that I do not apply that murderous label lightly. But as somebody here just remarked: It is what it is. The BATFE has earned the moniker. And then some.
    .
    I wish I could buy you a beer brother. very well said. So many people are in denial regarding the current state of our Federal law enforcement officials and many (NOT all of them) State/county LEO's.

    This happened ON MY OLD STREET in my hometown:
    http://www.rense.com/general20/innocentmanshot.htm

    Innocent Man Shot In Face By FBI
    By Kimberly A.C. Wilson
    Baltimore Sun Staff


    An Eagle Scout who was mistaken for a bank robber and shot in the face by an FBI agent in Pasadena, Maryland on Friday remained in serious but stable condition at Maryland Shock Trauma Center last night.

    Joseph Charles Schultz, 20, was shot at close range about 6 p.m. Friday when FBI agents searching for a bank robbery suspect pulled over his girlfriend's car.

    Schultz, who lives in the 7900 block of Seabreeze Drive in Orchard Beach in Anne Arundel County and works with fiber optics for a local medical company, has no connection to the bank robbery, officials said.

    At the time of the shooting, Schultz, who graduated from Northeast High School in Pasadena in 2000, was a passenger in a Pontiac Grand Am driven by his girlfriend, 16-year-old Krissy Harkum.

    The couple was returning from a trip to Marley Station Mall in Glen Burnie when plainclothes federal agents in unmarked cars pulled them over near Key Bridge Discount Liquors at 7212 Fort Smallwood Road, according to Harkum's father, Joseph Harkum. Carrying weapons that his daughter, a junior honor student at Northeast, described as "assault rifles or machine guns," the agents ordered them to put their hands up, he said.

    That's when the agent on the passenger's side opened fire, striking Schultz once, he said.

    Yeah, I'm Angry

    "Here you got two of the sweetest kids on the Earth going to the mall and having Slurpees, getting shot through the car window. It's a mess. Yeah, I'm angry," Harkum said from his Pasadena home.

    FBI spokesman Barry Maddox said agency policy prevented the immediate release of the name of the agent who shot Schultz.

    He also declined to comment on whether the agent has been assigned to desk duty pending an investigation of the shooting. Nor have FBI officials released information about how the shooting took place.

    "It's an ongoing investigation, and under most circumstances we do not give out too much information," Maddox said.

    Harkum said his daughter was struck by glass and blood but was uninjured in the shooting. Still, she remained shaken yesterday.

    She's Not Doing Too Good

    "She had nightmares about it," Harkum said.

    "She's not doing too good. Emotionally, she's not OK," he said.

    Krissy Harkum remained at Schultz's bedside last night. Though he was unable to speak, her father said, she told him that Schultz wrote her a note asking, "Why did he shoot me?"

    Family members reached at Schultz's home referred reporters' calls to attorney Joseph C. Asensio, who did not return repeated calls seeking information last night.

    Yesterday afternoon, agents assigned to the FBI's shooting review group based in Washington scoured the scene for the agency's internal investigation.

    Anne Arundel County police officers continued their probe of the shooting yesterday and were setting up interviews with witnesses, said Officer Charles Ravenell.

    Sun staff writer Lynn Anderson contributed to this article.

    Copyright © 2002, The Baltimore Sun
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  7. #21
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    I agree here with the General sentiments expressed here, Any Law org can have bad apples in it , as i stated earlier they have to recruit from the same human race we all come from, And we all can agree
    that;s just the way it is.I myself acknowledge that im not happy with the way our country is going or the politcal climate it has, My opinion
    is no better than any one elses, and while things ARE getting bad I
    can not in my mind or heart , compare our country with Nazi Germany at this time, Call me the eternal optimist if you will , but
    beleive in the American people WILL NOT allow our country down that Road ever. If nothing else prople like us would stop it, By force if need be I don't remember who said it but i heard this saying in numerous places, Sometimes the tree of liberty, must be replenished with the blood of Patriots. If it comes to that, then so be it.But I pray
    it won't have to be so, . Sorry I will get of my soapbox now, But I will NEVER apoligise for loving my Country.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaone View Post
    Sorry I will get of my soapbox now, But I will NEVER apoligise for loving my Country.

    N ones apologizing for this country.
    Hell, I love it too. But I sure dont love those who run it.
    And I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said that quote of yours.
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  9. #23
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    The OP Location isn't the Only Spot This is Happening!

    First, I'm NOT whacky Counter-Cultural, Chicken Little, Anti-Government, Peace & Love Type. I'm an educated, well-traveled, ex-adventure-seeking, Red Neck from West Kentucky with basically Conservative leanings. And I'm TELLING YOU that this type of thuggery is NOT isolated. I live a few miles from The Land Between the Lakes, a beautiful wild area of several hundred thousand acres between Kentucky Lake & Lake Barkley with NO commercial or private development that a few years ago was transferred from the responsibility of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to the National Forest Service.

    The changes were immediate and severe. The area previously abounded with tourists & locals enjoying the wilderness serenity of undeveloped space. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers & the associated LEOs were Goodwill Ambassadors who encouraged safe fun & responsible respect for a wonderful remaining Wild Place. Bald Eagles built their nests here. Black Bears, Cougars and Bobcats balanced the Deer, Squirrel, Raccoon & Rabbit populations. Bass & Crappie teemed along the shoreline. Truly an amazing National Treasure worth the trip...

    Then the NFS took over. Campgrounds were closed. Campers & Hikers turned away. The same place with just new LEOs became a rotten spot to visit. Abuses of power, ridiculous intrusion, almost unbelievable stories (unless you KNEW the teller) of Police having simply NO regard for ANYTHING except their own swaggering authority. Responsible, senior, well-respected members of the community (I'm talking Southern Baptist Deacons) being treated by badge-wearing, punk strangers like an unsavory, unwanted element in a National Wildlife Reserve. These LEOs treat young & old, local & tourist, well-heeled & low-lifed EXACTLY the same...BADLY! It's like something out of a low-budget, Drive-In B-Movie. Where the Corps guys wore Smokey Bear (Drill Sgt.) covers & green (pressed) uniforms with a black satin trouser seam, these NPS guys are in full SWAT black with subdued patches & Airborne (bloused) BDUs. They approach citizens with no due cause requesting ID like it's a LAW to carry one. They ask what BUSINESS visitors have while enjoying LBL. They tolerate nothing but immediate & almost subserviant answers.

    Not only do I fear for the decline in respect for authority these LEOs are bringing upon themselves in the region. I also fear that some otherwise law-abiding, local youngsters will resent these abuses to the point that they take EXTREME measures to give these strutting LEOs a lesson in Backwoodsmanship. You see, these NFS guys don't do too well once you get 'em off the road. They may be "tactical" but not too "wilderness skilled". And local Kentucky Country Boys roam the deep woods like they were BORN THERE! It's gonna' happen & it won't be good for anyone. And it's a SHAME it's gonna' happen between U.S. Government Employees & U.S. Citizens being pushed beyond the limits of their tolerance.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  10. #24
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    Exclamation No apologies necessary!

    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaone View Post
    I can not in my mind or heart , compare our country with Nazi Germany at this time, Call me the eternal optimist if you will , but beleive in the American people WILL NOT allow our country down that Road ever. If nothing else prople like us would stop it, By force if need be I don't remember who said it but i heard this saying in numerous places, Sometimes the tree of liberty, must be replenished with the blood of Patriots. If it comes to that, then so be it.But I pray it won't have to be so, . Sorry I will get of my soapbox now, But I will NEVER apoligise for loving my Country.
    Good quote from Thomas Jefferson!

    Let me tread carefully, here. I am in no way comparing this country to Nazi Germany. However, many of our elected and appointed officials are acting in similar ways as those officials who ran the nazi war machine. THEIR citizery had it in their power to stop it from ever getting underway, but didn't and soon it spun out of control. Those elected officials turned on the folks who elected them and made the citizens into servants of the government. We are on the verge of making exactly the same mistake with a different (though no less totalitarian or less deadly) threat. That threat, unfortuantely, exists among us instead of outside the country as was the case with Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito and Stalin.

    There are simply Americans of otherwise good character who wish to destroy the very fabric of our Constitutional freedoms and restructure the government and our society in their own globalist image. They are using the very system they wish to destroy to bring this result about! That's calculated and evil. These are people who can't be "reasoned with." They are certain they're right. However, they also know that certain impediments stand in their way and have been there since the union was formed.

    THE PILLARS OF FREEDOM

    Number one is the Second Amendment. If it weren't for that and the millions of people who believe it is the guardian of the rest of the Constitution, this nation would have been removed as a sovereign entity at the end of WWI. Coupled to the Second Amendment is the knowledge of it's importance to our freedom thus inculcating a willingness to fight to preserve it's place of honor. The first pillar is the nexus between firearms and freedom as demonstrated in the Bill of Rights and shown time and time again in our nation's history. What is the old saying? Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it? Well, what if it's not been ignored? What if by design such knowledge hasn't been imparted to begin with? If you don't understand a "value" are you likely to fight and die to preserve that value?

    That's where the opposition came up with a brilliant and long term (multi-generational) plan to subvert the country into their vision without requiring a blood letting they knew they probably would not win. How? Infiltrate and change the pillars upon which our society is supported. Do this by first changing the mental processes of the country....one child at a time. Infiltrate education and begin molding young minds to agree with the new vision of the future. This has been totally accomplished with stunning success. Readin' writin' and 'rithmetic have been replaced with warm and fuzzy feelings of self image and multicultural tolerance. Tolerance is the last refuge of a failed society. Want proof? Look at ancient Rome. Look at ancient Greece. "Tolerance" is a refusal to acknowledge that there is such an absolute as right and wrong.

    Last night I saw a documentary done by 20-20 news magazine on stolen iPods. They scattered iPods all over the country. 20 of them and made it look as if they'd been accidentally left by someone shopping nearby. ALL of them were stolen within moments of being left. The iPods had a special improvement: The log in info was also hooked into 20-20 as well as iTunes! Video was shot of each THEFT. Later those iPods that were registered were tracked down by a tv crew on an RV that was supposedly giving away free stuff. Each person was shown the video of their THEFT and asked "WHY?" Most were kids who are impulsive but acknowledged the theft and didn't even show remorse. Why? Because right and wrong aren't taught! Sure they were sorry. Sorry they'd been caught. That's all. The shocking thing was not all of the theft were done by some 17 year old kid. The adults were mostly not very repentant, either. None of the parents of the kids sanctioned those kids for their behavior. What would have happened to a kid who had done such a thing in say....1946?

    That is the extent to which these forces in our society have changed the face of the nation. Is it any wonder that so many TEACHERS are having sex with the kids? Is it any wonder that the police have this us v them mindset regarding the citizens? Most everybody is a product of the public schools (but just to be sure, the private schools were infiltrated as well) and when the content that goes into a mind is so carefully regimented and monitored under a specific goal....it's not a surprise when the follow on generations begin to act in exactly the manner in which they've been programmed!

    By the way, what is the surest measure of what is "right" and what is "wrong" and how has this foundation been attacked in our society with such success?

    THE SECOND PILLAR

    Anybody who didn't answer with some form of religious specifically Judeo-Christian comment is a victim of the system. The Bible and the Torah. That's hard to dispute, but it's been done. Separation of Church and State is the way God was kicked out of the classroom. I remember when I was a little kid, praying to God in class out loud! Times were calm and kids were learning well. Then along came the liberals and life changed. The grades went down and crime went up.

    If there is no acknowledgement of some form of HIGHER POWER....to me that means Christ Jesus....then there are no absolutes of good and evil. If it feels good, DO IT. As long as you don't directly harm another person it's fine. Gay marriage? Ok. Abortion? Fine. Homosexual adoption? Gives kids a good perspective on "tolerance."

    However, I think that the threat posed by Islam has these folks on the ropes. On the one hand, the surest way to force a massive redirection in our society immediately is to suffer another 911 but worse. I think that's one reason some folks seem to be acting as terrorist apologists in the name of "tolerance" of course. But the power structure who will assume control once the country is brought to it's knees, is a little bit scared of what that might mean for their own future control in the new order. Thus they are walking a very fine line. But they're also hedging their bets.

    What's another way besides a terrorist attack to insure massive societal change that also causes citizens to willingly sacrifice essential freedoms?

    Well, what about a proposition that there is only one way to save the planet from IMMINENT DESTRUCTION due to their own negligence? I don't care what you feel about what used to be called global warming until the temps started dropping in weird places, but what is NOW called global climate change (covering the issue all ways). I don't care as to the science. But what I do care about is when the politicians use the science to justify trampling the Constitution and FORCE societal change to encompass their vision of the future. Do you really think the lear jet liberals will give up their perks like thew jets, cars, SUVs and a lifestyle that squanders natural resources just so YOU and I can "save the planet?"

    I don't think so, either. The effect of all this "sacrifice" will be to eliminate the middle class and insure there are only two groups in the country. The RICH and influential and the POOR and powerless. Where do you think you and your loved ones will fall? I think so too.

    THE THIRD PILLAR

    Societal involvement in keeping the status quo. What would have happened in 1945 had some punk tried to mug a lady in front of a US marine just returned from war? Well, hopefully the same thing that would happen today if that marine was just back from Iraq. Dead thug. The difference is that in 1945, every civilian in sight would have been there to help kill the thug and today virtually nobody but the small ranks of we sheepdogs will act. And we're discouraged from interfering, constantly!

    How many times has a sheepdog interfered successfully and instead of a pat on the back the police community relations officer intones on the tv: Well he was LUCKY that it turned out so well. But we urge that when confronted with a criminal, you submit and let your police handle the matter. Submit and you won't be hurt. Nowadays when something bad happens everybody in sight freezes and does nothing. I don't wanna get INVOLVED! Well that's what is taught in school, right? It's certainly a mindset reinforced by the government.

    Sorry for the convoluted response, enigmaone. But I think you can see that this has nothing to do with YOU hating the country. Nor I. Because we don't .... either one of us! In fact, our presence on this forum seems to prove the reverse. But we've all got to face the facts when presented with them or we truly are doomed as a society and a nation. You were of the opinion that the American people would rise up and stop the evil. I've tried to show you how the forces of evil have infiltrated and overcome the pillars of freedom so as to enlist the HELP of those same American people in bringing down the country we both love so much!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    First, I'm NOT whacky Counter-Cultural, Chicken Little, Anti-Government, Peace & Love Type. I'm an educated, well-traveled, ex-adventure-seeking, Red Neck from West Kentucky with basically Conservative leanings. And I'm TELLING YOU that this type of thuggery is NOT isolated. I live a few miles from The Land Between the Lakes, a beautiful wild area of several hundred thousand acres between Kentucky Lake & Lake Barkley with NO commercial or private development that a few years ago was transferred from the responsibility of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to the National Forest Service.

    The changes were immediate and severe. The area previously abounded with tourists & locals enjoying the wilderness serenity of undeveloped space. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers & the associated LEOs were Goodwill Ambassadors who encouraged safe fun & responsible respect for a wonderful remaining Wild Place. Bald Eagles built their nests here. Black Bears, Cougars and Bobcats balanced the Deer, Squirrel, Raccoon & Rabbit populations. Bass & Crappie teemed along the shoreline. Truly an amazing National Treasure worth the trip...

    Then the NFS took over. Campgrounds were closed. Campers & Hikers turned away. The same place with just new LEOs became a rotten spot to visit. Abuses of power, ridiculous intrusion, almost unbelievable stories (unless you KNEW the teller) of Police having simply NO regard for ANYTHING except their own swaggering authority. Responsible, senior, well-respected members of the community (I'm talking Southern Baptist Deacons) being treated by badge-wearing, punk strangers like an unsavory, unwanted element in a National Wildlife Reserve. These LEOs treat young & old, local & tourist, well-heeled & low-lifed EXACTLY the same...BADLY! It's like something out of a low-budget, Drive-In B-Movie. Where the Corps guys wore Smokey Bear (Drill Sgt.) covers & green (pressed) uniforms with a black satin trouser seam, these NPS guys are in full SWAT black with subdued patches & Airborne (bloused) BDUs. They approach citizens with no due cause requesting ID like it's a LAW to carry one. They ask what BUSINESS visitors have while enjoying LBL. They tolerate nothing but immediate & almost subserviant answers.

    Not only do I fear for the decline in respect for authority these LEOs are bringing upon themselves in the region. I also fear that some otherwise law-abiding, local youngsters will resent these abuses to the point that they take EXTREME measures to give these strutting LEOs a lesson in Backwoodsmanship. You see, these NFS guys don't do too well once you get 'em off the road. They may be "tactical" but not too "wilderness skilled". And local Kentucky Country Boys roam the deep woods like they were BORN THERE! It's gonna' happen & it won't be good for anyone. And it's a SHAME it's gonna' happen between U.S. Government Employees & U.S. Citizens being pushed beyond the limits of their tolerance.

    Well, when anyone is backed into a corner and pushed too far, they will attack.

    Your right it is a shame that this may happen. The loss of any life including a LEO's is horrible.

    But are these LEO's so brainwashed and egotistical to think people dont see the trampling of personal freedoms? I guess so.

    And whats worse, are those type of LEO's who will jump at teh chance if the call came for it to go door to door and take (or try) our guns away.

    Like you, Im not some hippy. But I never understood why LEO's across the USA unite and form some type of "LEO's For the Protection Of Civil Liberties Union"
    That way there could be some type of check and balance from within.

    I think it would work very well.
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    Ex Soldier, Sorry im a man usually of few words,And you haven't said any thing i disagree with. I think if i may i would liken our country more like the old Imperial Rome, then Nazi Germany. God knows our country has it's problems but IMHO it is still the best on earth for our
    freedoms and liberty, compared to any other countries i can think of.
    I think only here in America that could we even be having this discussion, Of course thru Bumper's good graces letting us do this on his forum.If i have given ANY offence here it is because I truly love my country and maybe thru simple ignorance. It just occured to me that i might have hijacked this thread, again i will shut up and see if this poor thread can get back on track.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    ExSoldier,
    Have always enjoyed your insight from previous conversations. Nice to hear from you. (Did you ever find that Sig?)

    After reading your well-thought-out observations I'm reminded that the only reason our little experiment in Democracy called the U.S. has succeeded & prospered up until now is because of an almost universal moral compass. Not institutionalized or driven by the State, but rather ingrained by family, church & community with underlying cultural expectations. People who ignored this sense of morality were once a target of societial contempt. Now, they hold the lofty admiration of celebrity & usually host a Cable TV show. We CELEBRATE their infamy in a time when character takes a second seat to public recognition. Any serious student of history can quickly recognise the signs of an impending collapse of our American Empire. No different (but much faster) than the British, Holy Roman, Byzantien, etc. crumbled before us. May God indeed Bless the USA.

    Sig 229,
    I pray the unavoidable backlash from a citizenry too long tread upon will NOT result in loss of life. I suspect perhaps a resounding loss of dignity on the part of these LEOs when their alligator attitudes eventually overload their hummingbird rearends. Authority, in the end, only has as much power as is afforded to it by the population. Overzealous, untempered assersion of that authority at the expense of the same population in whom the true power lies will eventually result in that authority being granted to those more capable of shouldering its formidable responsibility. These "men" are power-drunk punks with apparent administrative encouragement, or at least acquiescence. I see no reason for their actions or why they should be tolerated. Anyone else WITHOUT the force of the law would NOT be!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    Exsoldier, Gotta agree with you.

    We are in the throws of societal decay, no doubt about it. All we can do is apply the brakes as hard as we can, for as long as we can. The downward spiral looks unstoppable at this point.

    We aren't seeing a new decay, just a continuation of one that has been occurring for a long time. I hate to sound pessimistic, I think I'm being more of a realist. We live in the greatest country in all of human history......but like all 'empires' of the past, we will suffer similar fates.

    Can we reverse direction? You bet! The problem lies in the will to correct ourselves. Most of the 'sheep' don't even see a need to change.

    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficient....The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."-Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, in a dissenting opinion in Olmstead v. U.S., 277 US 438, 479 (1927)

    (Governments derive) "Their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, (absolute power or influence of any kind) it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” - Declaration of Independence

    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus, Roman Historian 55-117 A.D.

    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations" - James Madison
    We as a society have allowed those that are supposed to represent us, take control away from us.
    "They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Benjamin Franklin
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  15. #29
    VIP Member
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    On a side note related to National Parks.

    I had emailed my congress-critter, (Rep. Virgil Goode) to thank him for being the ONLY CO-SPONSOR of H.R 1897 'National Park Second Amendment Restoration & Personal Protection Act of 2007' sponsored by Ron Paul.

    So far the bill in stuck in committee: The Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests & Public Lands.

    Rep. Goode was nice enough to include a hand written note, thanking me for my support......I wish there were more legislators like Paul & Goode. (I'd have been happy just getting an email response, but he took the time to write a note & include a copy of the bill.)
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Sig 226

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    ExSoldier,
    Have always enjoyed your insight from previous conversations. Nice to hear from you. (Did you ever find that Sig?)
    Indeed I did! I got a Sig P226 9mm in the limited "Blackwater" edition. I have been in contact with an instructor at Blackwater USA and he confirms that company personnel did have input with Sig in creating a "more perfect" P226. He stated that he himself owns one and hoped I would consider taking a couple of the Blackwater courses. I'm actually considering Tactical Pistol 1 & 2 for about $1000 each. Each is five days long and requires a total of 5000 rds. I'm talking to my favorite nephew and some buddies into doing it with me. Blackwater is possibly the closest to me (I live in Miami FL) of all the "elite" shooting schools I'd like to attend. Thunder Ranch and Gun Site being the others.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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