No gun, just a hammer and a bunch of victims who wouldn't act in their own defense

This is a discussion on No gun, just a hammer and a bunch of victims who wouldn't act in their own defense within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Here's a sickening story that follows the trend these days, which is snowballing: armed violent attacker is not resisted in robbery, but hurts his victims ...

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Thread: No gun, just a hammer and a bunch of victims who wouldn't act in their own defense

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    No gun, just a hammer and a bunch of victims who wouldn't act in their own defense

    Here's a sickening story that follows the trend these days, which is snowballing: armed violent attacker is not resisted in robbery, but hurts his victims viciously anyway.

    There is no longer any reason to NOT fight for your life when someone robs you. That much is clear to anyone who thinks about it for even a moment.

    People are too quick to say that killing your attacker is not justified because he's just stealing "stuff"--easily replaceable knicknacks like iPhones or iPods or cash or whatever. Well, I've always maintained that no matter what I stand to lose in a robbery, valuable or not, I will fight my attacker and I will win. This is because I recognize the fact that robbery is not about the fact that you'll lose the item(s), it's about the fact that someone is threatening you with harm or death to get them! And you can never "know" that he will leave you unharmed after you have tried to appease him. More and more robbers, it seems, are hurting or killing their victims after they've COMPLIED!

    If anyone wants to tell me that we should not resist attackers when all we might lose is some "stuff," please hold off, read the linked article, and then see if you still feel that way.

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  3. #2
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    Look at the poor doctors family in Connecticut... The wife definitely wasn't dead when she drove one of the BG's to the bank and got him $10,000.

    They weren't killed until after she returned with the money.

    PJ is correct!

    By definition, the threat of death or bodily harm is present at any robbery. Complying is no gurantee they won't take your life!

    Someone tries to rob me, it's Game On! Unless there is some compelling reason for me to feign compliance to try and gain a tactical advantage a few moments later.

    Bottom line, I'm not waiting long before taking action.

    Most likely, IMMEDIATE counterveiling force with violence of action is in order.

    I'm banking on the fact that they were expecting a or they wouldn't have picked me, therefore, they are not expecting Immediate Force!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Yet more proof that there are indeed evil men in the world, who won't think twice about killing you just for fun, even after you've given them everything they asked for.

    It's a shame none of the victims in this case were armed.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    It reminds me of a convenience store robbery I remember seeing on one of those wild police type shows....wish I could find the darn thing online...Basically guys walk in draw/threaten unless they get the money. Cashier gives them everything, they walked away! About 30 seconds later they came back in and shot him anyway.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    If anyone wants to tell me that we should not resist attackers when all we might lose is some "stuff," please hold off, read the linked article, and then see if you still feel that way.
    If anyone wants to tell you that we should not resist the attackers, I would have to bow out of this conversation to avoid saying things that are not acceptable on this forum.

    I agree with you 1,000,000,000%!!!

    When a bad guy decides to rob you, he does so by putting you in fear for your life if you don't comply.

    I will be DAMNED before I let some scumbag execute me or mine. I might go out while fighting but not execution style.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    It reminds me of a convenience store robbery I remember seeing on one of those wild police type shows....wish I could find the darn thing online...Basically guys walk in draw/threaten unless they get the money. Cashier gives them everything, they walked away! About 30 seconds later they came back in and shot him anyway.
    Just last night on America's Most Wanted (with John Walsh, that anti-gun idiot who tells people it's too dangerous to respond with a gun), they featured a segment about a guy (looked like an average, middle-aged white guy) who robbed a convenience store clerk. Forced the guy to walk with him to the back, and when they reached the end of the aisle near the freezer doors (still in the store area, not the back) he shot the clerk from behind, killing him.

    There was John Walsh saying in a voice-over that the robber was nonchalant about letting his face be seen on the video because he didn't plan on leaving a witness, from the get-go. (Of course, that doesn't make sense, John, because living witness or not, the guy is still visible on a videorecording! I guess John just needed something dumb to say.)

    Just another case of, "You'd better fight, because death might be awaiting you even if you do what the robber wants."

    Fight fight fight!! Don't assume there's a cherry-on-top in the form of a death-reprieve from a guy who, in the first place, is willing to stick a gun in your face and rob you!

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    You know what? I don't care if I know, 100% that the scum bag is going to not hurt anyone when he gets the money or belongings he is stealing....I am fighting anyway. You know why? Because it is MINE. I don't care what the bad guy wants. I don't care if he is desperate. I don't care about anything that is going on with him because I don't have to know anything other than he is committing a crime against me.

    And PJ is right, there is no way to know that if the scum bag gets what he is after he will just leave. He may very well, and many times they do, kill the victim anyway, for no other reason than to not leave a witness. I will never be a docile victim. I will fight. And the chances are better that I will live to see another day. The odds are not as good for the scum bag but that is just an occupational hazard of being a professional scum bag.

    And PJ is right about another thing, John Walsh is an anti gun fool. He does a great service with the show he hosts but he needs to keep is moronic mouth shut when it comes to telling people not to defend them selves. His son might still be alive today if his father were a little more aware of the concept of personal defense.
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    My wife who is not particularly happy that I have and carry firearms, happens to fall into the age group of those grandmothers who were attacked. She also visits a similar beauty shop on a regular basis. I shared the CNN story with her and asked what she would do to protect herself should she ever find herself in such a situation. After she thought about it for a minute or two, she said that, in the future, I should accompany her and wait inside the beauty shop until her appointment is complete.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    Gimpy...you set yourself up for that one :-)

    With all the perm solutions and other chemicals in one of those places a person without a gun but with the presence of mind to protect themselves could have stopped the situation.

    Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

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    Member Array kd5nrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    After she thought about it for a minute or two, she said that, in the future, I should accompany her and wait inside the beauty shop until her appointment is complete.
    "Okay, honey, but only if you're going to stay with me at the proctologist's office."

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    yet another reason why you should arm yourselves; 20 years ago, the robber would probably have taken the money and run. Now, they are making a point to "leave a calling card" by beating up or murdering their innocent victims.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Member Array sarlady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    After she thought about it for a minute or two, she said that, in the future, I should accompany her and wait inside the beauty shop until her appointment is complete.
    Gimpy,

    It's a shame you don't live closer, she could come with me. I carry in the beauty shop and every where else I can legally. Sound like it's time for her to get her own training and CC.

    I hope the ladies recover and the BGs get what they deserve.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    LEO's are minutes away, at best. The stranger standing next to you might just as well step over your bleeding body, to avoid violence, for all you know. The only one with any ability to affect your immediate security is: you. But if you're not going to take personal responsibility for that fact, you get one spin on the giant roulette wheel of life and one bet on how it's going to end up.

    For me, it's far safer and rational to decide that outcome in advance, and to train for that result.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    LEO's are minutes away, at best. The stranger standing next to you might just as well step over your bleeding body, to avoid violence, for all you know. The only one with any ability to affect your immediate security is: you. But if you're not going to take personal responsibility for that fact, you get one spin on the giant roulette wheel of life and one bet on how it's going to end up.

    For me, it's far safer and rational to decide that outcome in advance, and to train for that result.
    Well put.
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    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    You know what? I don't care if I know, 100% that the scum bag is going to not hurt anyone when he gets the money or belongings he is stealing....I am fighting anyway. You know why? Because it is MINE. I don't care what the bad guy wants. I don't care if he is desperate. I don't care about anything that is going on with him because I don't have to know anything other than he is committing a crime against me.
    +1

    [rant]

    But even beyond that, people say that 'stuff' is replaceable. Can you replace the productive hours, days or weeks you spent to earn the money you spent on that 'stuff'. Life=time, time=money, therefore money (stuff) = life. If that 'stuff' is something that you really need, you're going to have to go back and earn it again. I have had to do that. It is like short-term forced labor. I get pi$$ed off every time I think about it. (Can you tell?) They were never caught. They were 100% anonymous. I still haven't been able to replace some of the things I need. It's been a year.

    People need to understand that property isn't just some stuff you found on the sidewalk. Property rights are what make a civilization civilized. People who scoff at the property rights (and other individual rights) of others are barbarians and should be removed from civilized society. Too bad we can't just send them to Australia like in the old days. Too bad so many of these barbarians are in our government now. To me, theives are no different from rapists and murderers.

    [/rant]
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