University students do not need to be able to carry guns.

This is a discussion on University students do not need to be able to carry guns. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Especially this girl - this came through my Purdue email just now, and I've only had about 3-4 emails through this method in 4 years. ...

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Thread: University students do not need to be able to carry guns.

  1. #1
    Member Array mikeb's Avatar
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    University students do not need to be able to carry guns.

    Especially this girl - this came through my Purdue email just now, and I've only had about 3-4 emails through this method in 4 years. Good thing we can't carry on campus. Not even a state law, but a "University Policy"...


    Police hunt for 3 men who attacked woman in Hillenbrand Hall Sunday
    WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Purdue University police are looking for three men who accosted a female student on the first floor of Hillenbrand Residence Hall's west side at about 2:30 a.m. Sunday (Aug. 26).

    The female student, who called police about an hour after the incident, said the males pushed her into an elevator, held the door closed, and one of them fondled her. She was not physically injured.

    Police Lt. Sarah Sheppard said officers plan to distribute a composite drawing later on Sunday (Aug. 26) of at least one of the three men, who was described as a thin, black male, about 5 feet 8 inches tall, wearing a blue soccer jersey with the word "SIEMENS." He wore khaki shorts and sandals.

    The second man appeared to be Asian. He had an average build, was about 5 feet 10 inches tall, and wore a light blue button-down shirt with stripes, shorts and glasses.

    The victim supplied no information about the third man.
    Anyone with information is asked to call the Purdue Police Department at (765) 494-8221.

    Writer: Jeanne Norberg: (765) 491-1460; jnorberg@purdue.edu

    Purdue News Service: (765) 494-2096; purduenews@purdue.edu

    To the News Service home page

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  3. #2
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    Not to poo on CC, I don't see how carrying would have stopped that situation given the very close quarters and the 3 on one.

    The assailants were likely drunks "fooling around" who meant no serious harm. Had she pulled a gun at that point when they could not immediately exit the elevator, she would have likely been disarmed. If she shot, the assailants (if unarmed themselves) would have told a very different story and claimed the crazy lady attacked them. Without surveillance cameras in the elevator, there would be nothing to proved she didn't overreact.

    Again, here's where OC and martial arts training might be better than a firearms.

    I'm curious about why she waited an hour to call the police. Must not have been too frightened? Or was she too shaken? Or did she not immediately realize she was the victim of a crime?

    Kids often do not call the police when they should. There is a sense deep down that they should have handled things better and been "more adult." And they may not know that an incident is a criminal act.

    I found this out one time when my son and his girl friend, both college students, were at a dance hall. Someone groped the girl and he stepped in between. The assailant knocked by kid to the ground with a solid punch and repeatedly punched him while he was on the ground until others pulled him off.

    I found out the next day, because he went to the health center to get his face and black eye treated.

    Neither he, the girl, or other friends thought to call the police. None of them thought to tell the management. And all admitted that the assailant actually hung around the hall and made no attempt to flee.

    They ain't adults just cause the are 18 and able to serve in the Army.

    Maybe its my age, but I think the age of majority needs to go back to 21; maybe we can compromise at 20.

    It was changed only because of Vietnam era protests that folks who get drafted should be able to vote and drink. My idea was ALWAYS that if a draft is necessary it should start at 21. At 18 (man am I going to get heat for this) they are still "boy soldiers" and it is immoral.

    I'm rambling, but I've noticed that many of the fatalities in Iraw are of more mature guardsmen and reservists. Though each is a tragedy, at least they made adult decisions in joining.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Not to poo on CC, I don't see how carrying would have stopped that situation given the very close quarters and the 3 on one.
    You are completely wrong. You bet your (edited) it would have made a difference. Even better that it was close quaters--no aiming.

    The assailants were likely drunks "fooling around" who meant no serious harm. Had she pulled a gun at that point when they could not immediately exit the elevator, she would have likely been disarmed. If she shot, the assailants (if unarmed themselves) would have told a very different story and claimed the crazy lady attacked them. Without surveillance cameras in the elevator, there would be nothing to proved she didn't overreact.
    Are you telling me that it would be okay for three drunk guys to fondle your sister or your mom in that elevator--then chalk it up to "meh they were just drunk..no big deal"? Fondling is sexual battery if I am not mistaken and how much impetus would it have taken on the 3 guys part to turn fondling into something MUCH worse.


    Again, here's where OC and martial arts training might be better than a firearms.
    3 men vs 1 woman....jackie chan would have trouble with these odds. Also, OC-ing 3 drunk guys in an enclose spaced like an elevator would be a horrible idea.

    I'm curious about why she waited an hour to call the police. Must not have been too frightened? Or was she too shaken? Or did she not immediately realize she was the victim of a crime?
    This is a little odd, but people do weird things when in stressful situations. Maybe she was embarrassed that it happened to begin with.

  5. #4
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    3 guys vs. 1 girl in an elevator? I would think she has every right to defend herself at all costs. No idea what the 3 would be up to as they start pushing her back.
    The female might get disarmed, but just as likely get raped, beaten and killed.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    A scenario like that could have any number of different final outcomes.
    So much depends on the size of the males...were they on drugs?...how prone would they have been to react/retaliate violently to resistance? - the physical stature/condition of the female...etc. Would they have disarmed her?
    Would the other two have panicked and turned-tail and ran if she plugged one?
    Were the males also armed?
    Would the mere sight of a firearm have scared them off?
    There are so many variables that second guessing any outcome is impossible given the extreme lack of specific information in the news story.
    We'll never have all the answers and so it's impossible to predict what any outcome would have been so let's NOT make it personal between forum members.
    Debate the scenario politely because nobody can be right or wrong.
    It's an interesting but, highly dangerous situation to be in.
    Outnumbered in an extremely confined area with no possible avenue of escape.
    Debate that.
    Much would depend on your sixth sense as to the exact demeanor of the potential attackers.
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    Was she aware of her surroundings? Could she have defended herself with a firearm?

    What was she doing out and about so late that night? If you're going out, go WITH someone. If she had possibly been more aware of her surroundings and had had a weapon (she had trained with) she could have made a big difference...IMHO.
    These 'boys' who were (just?) drunk deserved to be filled with lead for such an act...the next girl may not be so lucky after meeting these scumbags.
    Learning to use a firearm in close quarters can be done...and effectively...and it happens more ofter then one might think.

    Oh, wait a minute, it was on the Purdue campus...you're supposed to give them what they want and call the police later...right!

    Glad she is ok, but I'm sure she will become a little more aware of her surroundings now...
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    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    CC + situational awareness could have made a big difference.

    . . . meant no serious harm.
    This was a SEXUAL ASSAULT. Any clown who pulls something like this deserves a castration . . . and not the chemical kind.
    Cheers,
    Rod
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    I agree with previous posters regarding CC; It always makes a difference;

    The pepper spray is a stupid idea; what do you think is going to happen when she uncorks the pepper spray in an elevator? Everybody, including her, is going to be affected.

    Martial arts? in a confined space? Another bright idea. I can remember my wife (then girlfriend) telling me that a woman holding a black belt could hold her own against any grown man; I said not really. I told her that was only true if the man in question didn't know how to fight. If he did, she could only use her abilities to buy herself time to escape, but in a toe to toe fight a 120 pound female stood little chance against a 200 pound male, especially one that was high or drunk.

    Guns are and always have been the great equalizer. The student in question should take some advice and arm herself and start paying attention to her surroundings, as other posters have pointed out.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    I can try to put aside my bias in favor of CCW a little bit. Maybe it is preferable for her not to have shot the thugs. She got fondled and no one got killed.

    But I really don't see this incident as anything except supporting CCW. Maybe they didn't deserve to die for fondling her.

    But she sure as hell deserved NOT to be assaulted, and she sure as hell deserved to be able to REPEL that assault, period.

    She was right and they were wrong.

    The burden of running risks should rest squarely on their shoulders, not hers. THEY should be the ones worrying about whether their victim is armed and will shoot them for their version of "harmless fun". She should not be worrying about whether they intend to cop a feel or slit her throat.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


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    Member Array MD_Willington's Avatar
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    A year or so there was a serial rapist at Washington State University in Pullman WA, some of the females on campus asked about concealed carry at a conference sponsored by WSU and the Pullman PD... Chief wiggum of the PPD or WSU PD basically said the womens firearms would be taken from the women and it would be used on them... DUH!

    I dislike that line of thinking...

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    "nobody ever raped a .38"

    they put her in the confined space of the elevator - assault, false imprisonment... how could she know at what point the assault would stop?

    "its ok, hold still, I just wanna cop a feel."

    she would be justified as rape is considered :serious bodily injury" and self defense (use of deadly force) is a valid defense in most jurisdictions in the protection of self or others when in fear for your life ar to prevent serious bodily injury....

    IANAL and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night

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    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
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    Remember this incidient did not start in the elevator. If she were carrying and trained to be aware of her environment, she could easily have avoided this situation. Whether that would have involved drawing the weapon or not - who knows? If so, certainly that would have changed the attackers view of the situation. They always say if you are being kidnapped, do everything in your power to avoid being moved to another location or getting into a car. I think an elevator qualifies. She should have been aware. She could have stipped the situation before it got as far as the elevator. I'm not saying she bears any guilt here - just that CCW and awareness training would have helped.
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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Sound like a job for a "Lady Smith"
    That was a sexual assault ie.. a forcable felony. She would have been well within her rights to shoot. Too bad if those guys thought it was cute they would have learned a valuable lesson, if they lived.
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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Missing the whole point.

    Where to start?!! This is definitely NOT a well thought out post, Mike. When WOULD be appropriate for CC, if not in this case? There are so many things about this post that I'd like to disagree with, but maybe it would suffice to suggest you ask someone who has been through this kind of thing about how it felt.

    Your post indicates it is in some way acceptable for these guys to have done what they did. All three should have been ventilated the moment they touched her. Period. If it were my wife, they would have been.

    It is a tragedy that you cannot carry on campus.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    Especially this girl - this came through my Purdue email just now, and I've only had about 3-4 emails through this method in 4 years. Good thing we can't carry on campus. Not even a state law, but a "University Policy"...


    Police hunt for 3 men who attacked woman in Hillenbrand Hall Sunday
    WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Purdue University police are looking for three men who accosted a female student on the first floor of Hillenbrand Residence Hall's west side at about 2:30 a.m. Sunday (Aug. 26).

    The female student, who called police about an hour after the incident, said the males pushed her into an elevator, held the door closed, and one of them fondled her. She was not physically injured.

    Police Lt. Sarah Sheppard said officers plan to distribute a composite drawing later on Sunday (Aug. 26) of at least one of the three men, who was described as a thin, black male, about 5 feet 8 inches tall, wearing a blue soccer jersey with the word "SIEMENS." He wore khaki shorts and sandals.

    The second man appeared to be Asian. He had an average build, was about 5 feet 10 inches tall, and wore a light blue button-down shirt with stripes, shorts and glasses.

    The victim supplied no information about the third man.
    Anyone with information is asked to call the Purdue Police Department at (765) 494-8221.

    Writer: Jeanne Norberg: (765) 491-1460; jnorberg@purdue.edu

    Purdue News Service: (765) 494-2096; purduenews@purdue.edu

    To the News Service home page
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  16. #15
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Many things happen on purdue campus that never get a word. Remember the thug foot ball player that assaulted 3 females and punched one in the face so hard that she lost three teeth? It confuse me that colleges are now small towns that you do not know where you are legal and where you are not. Good thing they have an escort service and all those yellow phones for every ones safety. Someone also told me it was a felony to carry on campus? so where dose prude begin and West Lafayette begin????
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

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