June 6th, 2005 11:50 AM
Was it a member of the Choir?
I was perusing the VTF and I found this thread from a biker named Bot that I think you'll find interesting on two fronts. Take a look.
First off, I'd like to dramatize the point that this group of bikers attend church, and there are lots of them. So many that they have their own church event.
Last night, a friends 2001 Black Ultra Classic was stolen between 11:00 and 11:12 pm from a church parking lot. We'd had a Biker Weekend at the church, and I guess he was cleaning up inside at that hour.
Northern KY. I'd give the licence, but I'm sure that is useless. I'll post the VIN as soon as I get it.
Black 2001 Ultra Classic from Northern Kentucky.
Second, a major crime was committed at church. An Ultra Classic bike can weigh near 900 pounds, depending on the accessories, so this was not a spur of the moment theft.
I mention that angle because most of us feel secure in our church. Even I drift to 'white' on many occasions. My wife's Explorer was just vandalized. There are many instances of a deranged individual with an Armegedon agenda entering a church and shooting several worshippers.
So here's a group of guys who ride heavy bikes. While no man knows the condition of another man's heart, I feel safe in having an opinion about their past life. If the thief(s) would have been caught, the bikers would have cast lots 'for the big pieces.'
So that's the face of crime. Aggressors don't fear us, they'll steal anything regardless of risk, and they don't take Sunday's off; rather they are out there 24/7.
I ride, I worship. It's still an eye opener.
June 6th, 2005 12:27 PM
About a year ago our church made an announcment that someone was breaking into cars during services so don't leave valuables where they could be seen. I carry 24/7 and that includes church. I know what you mean about driffting to condition white there, we would like to feel safe at church if nowhere else.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
June 6th, 2005 12:36 PM
Sad reflection on today's society that in fact there is nowhere we can really quite guarantee safe.... not 100%
My (deep) vindictive soul has conjured up images of the bike thief being caught ''in flagrente'' - and I imagine the ''retribution'' - but I am not sure as yet where all the body parts would get buried!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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June 6th, 2005 12:38 PM
I too, would like to think of "church" as a safe refuge but considering that church is one of the few places where money is actually publically collected as a part of the service, it just seems like a temptation to BGs. I'm a lttle surprised that we don't hear about churches's offerings being robbed.
June 6th, 2005 03:28 PM
I'm so glad that the state of Texas changed their laws to allow CCW in places of worship.
We had the family car stolen while we were at church many years ago.
June 6th, 2005 04:01 PM
Those choir folks are a shifty lot. I know I used to be in the choir.
We had someone coming in and stealing coats at one church. A quick change to the usher duties fixed that. I used to be the guy that logged and made the deposit of the offering. Never have liked the fact that VA won't let me carry in a church.
June 6th, 2005 04:55 PM
"§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
Originally Posted by Scott
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor."
"Good and sufficient reason" is pretty vague, but it doesn't sound like carry inside a church is actually barred by Virginia code.
June 6th, 2005 06:16 PM
It's that meeting for religious purposes part that gets me. During the rest of the time our church is also a school so it is a no-gun zone anyway. I have a friend who's pastor said anyone who is legal to CCW can do so in his church. They have all been granted good and sufficient reason. My pastor will do no such thing at our church.
Originally Posted by Tom357
June 6th, 2005 09:20 PM
There used to be a guy who used a unique tag line. "Don't confuse compassion with weakness." It applies here.
The place was full of "church bikers." After all, how dangerous can they be? And I'm afraid most aggressors feel that way. Thunder Ranch used to say, "Don't look like food." It shows you how cold their hearts are.
On a bright note, the thieves will either have to ride a bike with funny VIN numbers, or try to sell off the parts. In either case, they have to rub elbows with other Harley riders. Unless they hang with outlaws forever and never need so much as another spark plug, they might make it to retirement.
Bot has now listed his plight in a national Harley forum.
If I were the thief, I'd ride the bike under the cover of darkness to a public parking ramp and just walk away--hoping all of my finger prints were gone.
This is not a group that believes in a "customer service counter."
This is a disappointing aspect of modern life. My parents used to say that on hot nights they could sleep with their windows and doors open. I now leave the motion sensors on when I'm home and armed.
Churches used to be open so that the troubled could enter and pray at any time of day. Now the 'troubled' feel brazen enough to steal on church property from bikers, no less.
I wish I'd have been there, if for no other reason to see the low life that has now lowered the bar to record depths. Perhaps I could have introduced him to everybody...
June 7th, 2005 10:38 AM
Ah. That's too bad. A group I belong to uses a meeting room at a local church for its meetings, on nights when nothing religious is going on, and I've been able to carry there with no problem. No one would know, of course, but still. It sucks that the law is so vague and inconsistently applied.
Originally Posted by Scott
June 7th, 2005 06:36 PM
Sunday at church, normal carry is just two guns--usually a 45 and a 38 for bug. Police station is just 100yds from church---but that still could be 3 or 4 minutes after they are notified.
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