Or that somebody thinks that they are driving the wrong vehicle?Originally Posted by Prospector
This is a discussion on While we're on cars... my anti SUV rant within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Prospector EUC...since this is a rant time.....do you really think the majority of folks out here give a rats behind about vehicle ...
Or that somebody thinks that they are driving the wrong vehicle?Originally Posted by Prospector
Guys, if I can be so bold here, I think I can straighten this out. We have the never-ending tale of "Americans vs. Engineers." It's a classic battle.
My Dad was an engineer. If they have one dominant, honed skill, it's the ability to dispassionately cut through all of the irrelevant data and find the core reason why buildings fall down. If you tell these guys that "I like chocolate cake," they will endeavor to spend years of research to find out why their own children have tongue pappilla different from their own. In the neat, ordered world of the engineer, a muted white or perhaps a tangy lemon cake is certainly the best.
If you pull into the driveway with loud exhaust pipes, the engineer will remind you that internal combustion engines need a certain amount of back-pressure vis a vis the volumetric efficiency of their engine size. When you counter with, "We bored out the engine, added bigger valves and a long-duration cam," the engineer will comment that you bought something to replace what you threw away.
The engineer needs order in his life, so much so that he demands order in your life. When he doesn't immediately get it, he thinks up numerous well grounded postulates to diminish your use of alienable rights. Heavens knows what he has told his wife about her sexual technique.
The engineer will never be totally happy with Americans. We all run in different directions, each under his own compass, defying orderly egress as dictated by the engineer. The world is a minefield of Democrats, bikers, cowboys, recalcitrant wives and chocolate cake eaters that just will not listen to reason.
Someone, somewhere, right now has entered his own dwelling without removing his shoes. It's a jungle out there, I tell you, a jungle...
No one here in sales I guess???? No one took any marketing classes???
Buy on emotion justify with facts later.
We are consumers and consumer will buy just about anything whether it makes sense or not.
Tangently involved with sales (managed services) and yes, I took marketing classes in school (have a BBA with Markting, Management Minors and an MBA). I know most consumers buy not with their brains but with their hearts (and other body parts).Originally Posted by Scott
That said, I'm also cursed with the brain of an engineer (network engineer by trade). I approached MY suv purchase as an engineer. After looking at what I needed in a vehicle, the SUV was the best choice for a SINGLE vehicle. If I could afford to buy 2 or 3 vehicles, then an SUV wouldn't be on the list (that's why I drive the Altima on a daily basis).
Heh. I paid $650 for my car. It has a 5L V8 and a cavernous trunk, and rear wheel drive. I fit in it. It is paid for, and I'm not upside down in a car loan with a monthly note that rivals or exceeds my house note. It isn't cool or trendy, and if the snow is more than a foot deep, I'm in trouble, but it carries my family and my greyhounds, and that's good enough.
You have the power to donate life.
I hate SUVs too, mostly because they took good dependable 4X4s and pussyfied 'em for the soccer moms, made ‘em lower so women can get in without “showing everything” and made ‘em longer so they could put in 4 door for the kiddies, now they hang up when off road. Made the suspensions nice and soft for the women, now you can’t bounce the front end off the ground without bottoming out the shocks. That is why I still have my 1988 full size Bronco, there just ain’t nothing that can replace it. I also have an F350 diesel dually 4X4 when I want to haul and a full size car (Lincoln Continental). Before I got the truck I had 3 different trailers I could pull with the Bronco, including a ¾ ton pickup bed trailer that could do any hauling I needed to do, including a ton of bulk fertilizer.
Holy crap, Tom357, were you and I seperated at birth?Heh. I paid $650 for my car. It has a 5L V8 and a cavernous trunk, and rear wheel drive. I fit in it. It is paid for, and I'm not upside down in a car loan with a monthly note that rivals or exceeds my house note. It isn't cool or trendy, and if the snow is more than a foot deep, I'm in trouble, but it carries my family and my greyhounds, and that's good enough.
I know what I like in a car. I like sporty looks. I like good handling and at least decent power. I like rear-wheel-drive. I loathe automatic transmissions. I also demand dependability, longevity, and practicality.
Because of my fondness for driving fast on twisty roads, I must have a car, not a truck or SUV. The car body style which to me, strikes the best balance between looking sporty and being practical is the hatchback.
In order to find a car which fit all of these criteria I had to go all the way back to 1988. I paid $2000 for my 88 Nissan 200SX SE V6, this was about 4 years ago, it had 122k on it. Now it's got 209K and still going strong.
Like Tom357 said, it's got a cavernous trunk (not really a trunk per se, it's a hatch, but I can fold the back seats down and sleep back there comfortably.), it's paid for, it's not very trendy, it sucks in the snow, but it carries me and my stuff, and my greyhounds.
"Terrorists don't seem to be too afraid of stern language. But I do notice, that while the fear of death does not seem to deter these people, the fact of BEING dead does significantly decrease their operational effectiveness. "
- Bill Whittle
I love SUVs. Most versatile vehicle one could get. My Bronco pulls Pickup truck duty when the top is off and I fold the back seat up. I can put all 5 of my sons side by side on that back seat, and they are all in a seatbelt (added a couple extra) and held safe. Yeah, they are cramped, but I got 5 of them, what else can I do? (actually I'm going to put in another rear seat, and put them both facing eachother... but that's another story) I can haul and pull everything that I need to pull and haul.
Get a station wagon...
Get a bus...
Get a truck...
Screw all that. I am not the Air Force who is into getting a specialized platform for every duty. My option is an SUV. And my SUV is PAID FOR. No monthly payments offsets the cost of increased fuel consumption by a very large margin.
This is what works for me. If it doesn't work for you, fine... I don't care. Just as long as you shut up about it.
I also have 2 (a blue one and a silver one) Jeep Cherokees... the classic SUV that Land Rover and Ford are copying. They have served my family very well, and will continue to do so. We also have a Ford van that all the kids ride in most of the time, but we can't go up into the mountians in it... which is where the 4X4s come in.
FORD FULL SIZE BRONCO: TREAD HEAVY, LIGHTLY.
I never pictured you as a family man.all 5 of my sons
Gotta agree with your reasoning for the SUV, it's the same path I went down (just with fewer kids).
You guys ought to know me well enough by now to know that 'swimming against the tide' is just a warm-up to serious exercise. The fact that most people in the same room are opposed to my position just means there's more cake at my table.
I would never put my wife in a 75-dollar car because two tree huggers and ex-con from 'Earth First' feel my choice is tainted. Two of the numbers on my license plate are a tad crooked so these cons should take more pride in their work and pay less attention to mine. My choice of transportation is 'mine,' hence the identifying adverb.
If you like grubby, rusting hulks of questionable parentage to navigate across three lanes of snow covered tarmac, be my guest. If you hit something with your foolishness, just be prepared to pay for it like a man. You screwed up. Driving on snow is not like driving to the beach for a 'kegger' with the frat boys.
And BTW, old wrecks emit more air-fouling hydrocarbons than newer vehicles. Everytime I see a '59 Studebaker with an 'I heart Kerry' sticker on the rear bumper it's belching visual fumes.
A 'debate' is a simple statement of your postulates and arguments on a topic with diverse facets. It is not an immediate mandate of change for your opposition.
More than half of the population drive trucks and SUV's. Good choice. They are good in snow and bad weather and they get about 20 miles to the gallon.
I'm a child of the 1950's and I rode in the cars of that era. They spun out in snow, they had dismall suspension, drum brakes, got 9 miles to the gallon and polluted the skys.
There were no such things as 'crumple zones.' Jay Leno often joked that if you got into a car accident with the old Buick Roadmaster they hosed your blood off of the dashboard and sold the car to someone else.
Most protests to SUV's are a statement of image over substance. SUV's are better. I understand the reluctance. After all, I owned two Honda Gold Wings. Time marches on.
Sorry, guy, I still find it hard to tell people they have no case in the genteel and erudite confines of forums.Huh ??? What ???
I've followed this debate for a few pages now. I've owned a dozen of these vehicles and I used to build engines. There comes a time and a threshold where you just have to tell your opponent he doesn't know what the heck he is saying.
They get on a catch-phrase, or an idea, or 'urban wisdom' and without actually crawling under the vehicle, make all kinds of claims not found in nature.
Here's another. "Automatic transmissions use more gas." Maybe thirty years ago. Maybe. Ask the genius if he's heard of locking torque converters.
Ditto for air conditioners. I had a Mustang that moved a compressor bigger than a shoebox onto your serpentine belt. It ate power and mileage like a little kid eating french fries--in 1989. The A/C in my Tracker (with a motor half the size) produced a cooler environment without any measureable drain.
Now we have SUV's. A Suzuki Samurai tips over in 1984 and now my wife's 2004 Explorer is unsafe. Arnold's Hummer gets 12 miles per gallon, so ergo, an F-150 with over-drive must be identical.
You don't know what you're talking about.
BTW. "Harley's drip oil."
That's funny. My garage floor is dry. Yikes, read a book.
What Would Jesus Drive...
Probably the biggest SUV he could find, to haul around those twelve other guys.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Diligentia Vis Celeritas"
"There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
~ Tiger McKee
SUV's are useful. ............When used for a purpose. Just to haul folks around town seems a bit much, but for serious hualing stuff , its hard to beat. I really liked my S10 blazer, but liek a P/U more. And yeah the bed has scrapes and the sides have scratches.
I was addressing the urban legend aspect.
If my wife drives her Explorer around town doing errands, and some wannabee thrashes his WRX STi in every gear at max revs, who uses more gas?
However, now ask some clueless hoser on the street, "We just ran two vehicles, an SUV and a Subaru, which gets better mileage?"
And that's the crux. Good vehicle maintenance and responsible driving.