Student Arrested After Wearing Body Armor to Class

This is a discussion on Student Arrested After Wearing Body Armor to Class within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't thin k the weapons charges will stand, especially if the clear out was empty as suggested. He was on tape with stolen property ...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I don't thin k the weapons charges will stand, especially if the clear out was empty as suggested.

    He was on tape with stolen property (the newspaper box) and shooting it. There is definitely something he can be held for.

    On the one hand the authorities may be overreacting with regards to the actual crimes committed. On the other this kid is clearly on the path to bigger trouble and I think they are trying to do something NOW about it.

    The parents, father and now deceased mother, are to blame. Home schooled with a 6th grade education at 18 and no social skills, GOOD WORK MOM AND DAD!!!! Everyone here knows how to defeat a vest but would you ever have a conversation with an LEO about it while in the process of being investigated? This kid's bubble is not plumb.

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  3. #32
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    The officer wrote that he "... believes Newberry is training and arming himself for some future illegal event."
    Does anyone else find this troublesome? Conspiracy laws - those which cover most "future act" crimes - are very specific in what is required to constitute a conspiracy. While I cerainly agree that this kid warrants watching, socialization, and education (if not more, depending on what he actually did), I see a bit of "thought crime" mentality being applied here.

    And no, I wouldn't talk about how to kill someone wearing body armor outside of my "circle," but really, how unusual is it for an 18 year old in todays society to know this? It is a common theme in movies, TV, video games, and so on...one does not have to try very hard to come across references to this type of thing. Plus, the kid had AKs - soft body armor is worthless anyway...

    And Mighty HD - all the dates listed are within the last two weeks as far as I can see, and all stem from this incident. There is nothing in that report that indicates any prior arrests/bad acts.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    And no, I wouldn't talk about how to kill someone wearing body armor outside of my "circle," but really, how unusual is it for an 18 year old in todays society to know this?


    Right, every 18 year old kid who is being questioned by the police has no idea that it might be bad to describe to them how you would defeat the body armor they are wearing in order to kill them...

    This kid is a messed up time bomb.

    Now I also am against the "thought crime" concept. At the same time how many people here would be yelling about "didn't anybody ever see this coming" if he did open up on a classroom? If you had heard the kid had been questioned for wearing body armor to school, having an OC GRENADE, having a device to allow the OC to be sprayed under doors, having a collection of firearms with video footage of him setting off an explosive and shooting up a newspaper vending machine yet authoritise said "That's all perfectly explainable, have a nice day" you would all condem the authorities.

    I say prosecute him for his REAL crimes and based on those and his troubling behaviour have him seriously looked at by proffesionals.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderdude View Post
    My guess is that they arrested him on suspicion that he was preparing to do something very bad. Sure walking around in body armor may raise alarm, but like you said, it's not illegal, so who knows what was running through his mind. The charge of grand theft makes no sense, as he didn't actually steal anything.
    You know what... If I was in high school these days.. I'd be wearing body armor EVERY DAY. Their isn't ONE person in a school that is armed with any kind of authority or a level head on their sholders.
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8


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  6. #35
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    What I said was that it was not unusual for him to know these things - it is unusual for him to talk about his knowledge in front of LEOs.

    And you know what? When I was a teen-ager, I shot up all kinds of "junk" that seemed like it would be fun to shoot. I never stole a newspaper machine, but I may remember a few fire extinguishers that somehow ended up downrange. Without knowing what his "explosive" was, how many of us have shot aerosol cans or the like for their explosive reactions to being shot? One poster even linked to specially made explosive target mix (perfectly legal) for this exact purpose - should he be arrested if he videos himself shooting it with a legally purchased firearm in a legal place?

    I, for one, will not condemn this kid for what has been reported openly. Are there questions about his intent? Certainly. Is the fact that he had guns and OC a reason to arrest? I should hope not, or a LOT of people on this board are going to jail.

    "I say prosecute him for his REAL crimes (exactly...and nothing more) and based on those and his troubling behaviour (I would submit that his "troubling behavior" is a mild day at the range for many members of this forum) have him seriously looked at by proffesionals (appointed by whom? What about the Goth kid that wore handcuffs as jewelry, walked in front of a courthouse and was "questioned" by the police for it? Are we really advocating for actual "fashion police?" If wearing the body armor was legal, then it seems that ALL of this other stuff is fruit from the poisoned tree and has no place in front of a jury. Of course, I only know what the media wants me to know about this - but these are my questions when looking at this with the perspective of protecting everyones freedoms vs. prosecuting a kid for "potential." YMMV.)"
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #36
    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    I am so thankful that I grew up before the time of “Domestic Terrorism” and School Shooting.
    At 18 I would go do to the Farm Supply Store and buy blasting caps and Primer Cord, even made a little money blasting beaver dams. I had the cops pull me over once sometime around 1986. I was dressed to full battle gear, with 2 rifles (.22 carbine and a 30-30), a pocket .25 pistol, a 20 gage shotgun, 20 feet of primer cord, a 6 Volt battery, flash bulbs, PVC pipe, Saw, electrical tape. He asked me if I was poaching deer, and then gave me a warning for speeding (57 in a 45). Wonder how that encounter would go today?
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  8. #37
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    Deacon51 - EXACTLY! My friends and I had an arsenal that would make this kid wet his pants, and none of us ever shot anyone with any of our firearms. We had the cops called on us once because we were close enough to someones house (on private land) that the homeowner could hear us, playing "mad minute" with a number of ARs, shotguns, an HK 91, an AK, and so on... The one cop, who came up to us with his weapon holstered, just told us to move further into the woods... Nothing illegal, no future serial killers among us, no need for "preffessional evaluations," etc. By letting the tiny minority of wackos dictate an oppressive policy of "zero-tolerance" and ridiculous restrictions and invasions of privacy, we are selling out the freedoms of the whole for the actions of a part. I hate the fact that we have so quickly and so willingly thrown away so much "for the children," when it is only a miniscule amount of bad actors who do bad things, while the rest of us go about our lives without ever hurting another person... That's just me, though.

    All that being said - if the kid broke the law (and we can prove it without violating his 4th Amendment rights), then punish him.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I, for one, will not condemn this kid for what has been reported openly. Are there questions about his intent? Certainly. Is the fact that he had guns and OC a reason to arrest? I should hope not, or a LOT of people on this board are going to jail.
    I will. He stole private property and destroyed it. Those are grounds for arrest and imprisonment right there. Now that we have him in the system let's crack his head open and find out what deeper issues he has.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    I will. He stole private property and destroyed it. Those are grounds for arrest and imprisonment right there. Now that we have him in the system let's crack his head open and find out what deeper issues he has.
    Why him, of the millions of criminals we have "in the system?" Where do you draw the line on who is thinking about future acts, needs psychological evaluation, etc...? Who draws that line? If vandalism is grounds for a "cracking someone's head open," what is amassing firearms and ammunition?

    The fear of this kid (who has yet to be found guilty of ANY crime, BTW) with firearms - as opposed to this board full of people with firearms - seems a bit overboard. The rights of ALL must be protected, not just those who dress like us.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #40
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    I don't fear this kid but fear for him. Reading about his family and his lack of social skills/ education has limited his options in life. If we could give him some consuling and have him join the military (well con't now becuaes of the felony charge) to install some disclipine he probably would turn out to be a good citizen.

    If we throw him in prison and label him as dangerous he will become dangerous. I don't think he needs prison but he does need supervision that his family hasn't provided. I would appoint the Marines as guardian until he graduates for boot camp if I good.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon51 View Post
    I am so thankful that I grew up before the time of “Domestic Terrorism” and School Shooting.
    At 18 I would go do to the Farm Supply Store and buy blasting caps and Primer Cord, even made a little money blasting beaver dams. I had the cops pull me over once sometime around 1986. I was dressed to full battle gear, with 2 rifles (.22 carbine and a 30-30), a pocket .25 pistol, a 20 gage shotgun, 20 feet of primer cord, a 6 Volt battery, flash bulbs, PVC pipe, Saw, electrical tape. He asked me if I was poaching deer, and then gave me a warning for speeding (57 in a 45). Wonder how that encounter would go today?
    I think about that myself and I'm not that old! DOH! I can think back to countless similar events that if they were to occur today, I'd be fried! Half the folks here probably can too. It's nuts.

    As far as the zero tolerance BS and the punish everyone for the acts of a few nonsense...It's been slowly but clearly ingrained in everyone over the years. Heck, it was even going on when I was in school. "The next person that talks in class makes the whole class loose recess..." Or "If one person steps out of line, the entire class is going to be punished..." You see where I'm going with this. Bust him with what they actually HAVE on him and if they have nothing cut him loose and keep an eye on him for a while.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    What I said was that it was not unusual for him to know these things - it is unusual for him to talk about his knowledge in front of LEOs.

    And you know what? When I was a teen-ager, I shot up all kinds of "junk" that seemed like it would be fun to shoot. I never stole a newspaper machine, but I may remember a few fire extinguishers that somehow ended up downrange. Without knowing what his "explosive" was, how many of us have shot aerosol cans or the like for their explosive reactions to being shot? One poster even linked to specially made explosive target mix (perfectly legal) for this exact purpose - should he be arrested if he videos himself shooting it with a legally purchased firearm in a legal place?

    I, for one, will not condemn this kid for what has been reported openly. Are there questions about his intent? Certainly. Is the fact that he had guns and OC a reason to arrest? I should hope not, or a LOT of people on this board are going to jail.

    "I say prosecute him for his REAL crimes (exactly...and nothing more) and based on those and his troubling behaviour (I would submit that his "troubling behavior" is a mild day at the range for many members of this forum) have him seriously looked at by proffesionals (appointed by whom? What about the Goth kid that wore handcuffs as jewelry, walked in front of a courthouse and was "questioned" by the police for it? Are we really advocating for actual "fashion police?" If wearing the body armor was legal, then it seems that ALL of this other stuff is fruit from the poisoned tree and has no place in front of a jury. Of course, I only know what the media wants me to know about this - but these are my questions when looking at this with the perspective of protecting everyones freedoms vs. prosecuting a kid for "potential." YMMV.)"
    Very good points on all counts. I'd like to add that my response to all of this was due to my years as somebody who could have used a watchful eye (not Mom or Dad...somebody bigger and stronger than I). I wanted to make a point that some understanding might, in a few of these cases where an otherwise great kid goes nutzo, be something that really changes the course of events.

    All in all, though, I agree with everything you've said.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  14. #43
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    Here's more on this topic:

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct...breaking&imw=Y

    By Chris Echegaray and Billy Townsend of The Tampa Tribune

    Published: October 17, 2007

    News Release/Search Warrant | Photos

    LAKELAND - Shawn Keiffer Newberry bought his first Kalashnikov-style semiautomatic rifles from Vets Army Navy surplus on consecutive January days this year, shortly after he turned 18.

    Newberry paid for the $575 and $555 rifles with a wad of cash. That seemed odd to the store's owner, Michael Dunn, but other than that, Newberry seemed little different from anyone else with an interest in collecting the iconic weapon. It was completely legal.

    It was Oct. 3 before Newberry's behavior, and a small arsenal he'd collected by that time, truly hit a nerve. That's when he walked into a Lakeland charter school where he recently had enrolled - wearing body armor, authorities say.

    Even as Newberry sits in Polk County Jail, with his bail set at $605,000, uncertainty remains. What, if anything, did Newberry plan to do with the weapons he accumulated? How did the pizza deliveryman pay for them? Was anyone else involved?

    Newberry's father says his son is not a threat.

    "The truth is Shawn is the most gentle person you'll ever meet in the world," said Jessie Newberry Jr. "He's never picked a fight with anybody. He would not hurt a flea."

    Lakeland Police Department Officer Jennifer Mullins, however, in applying on Oct. 10 for a search warrant for Newberry's home, wrote that she "believes that Newberry is training and arming himself for some future illegal event in conjunction and conspiracy with other like-minded persons."

    Police were looking for evidence of "communications and plans" at Newberry's home at 2108 Selkirk Lane. They didn't say whether they found anything to indicate a plan was in motion.

    "This is a classic case of personal rights versus public safety," said Sgt. Terri Smith of the Lakeland Police Department. "Did we step in and avert a disaster? We may never know."

    New Student With Alarming Vest

    Newberry's visits to Vets continued, and one day he bought a bullet-resistant vest. Owner Dunn said one of his regular police customers was in the store at the time and asked Newberry what he needed with body armor.

    "He didn't really have an answer," Dunn said.

    That seemed fishy. It's not illegal to buy body armor; nonetheless, Dunn notified the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives of Newberry's behavior, he said.

    Local agencies also began to notice Newberry, who had not been enrolled in public school since sixth grade. Several investigations and a concealed-weapon arrest ensued. Dunn told Newberry he no longer would sell him firearms.

    By that time, Newberry had purchased body armor, a Taser, three Kalashnikovs, a shotgun, Clear Out grenades with tubes for under-door deployment, a tactical helmet, a gas mask and about 2,000 rounds of ammunition from Vets, which is on North Florida Avenue, police said.

    The latest investigation into Newberry started Oct. 3, after he wore a bullet-resistant vest to the Life Skills Center, a charter school where he had been a student for a few days, police and school officials say.

    The school's administrator, Curtis Thomas, said Wednesday that Newberry did not threaten anyone at the school or otherwise cause a disruption. When school officials realized he was wearing the body armor, a Lakeland police officer on contract with the school began to question him.

    'He Had His Reasons'

    Asked why he had the vest, Newberry answered that "he has his reasons," according to the search warrant affidavit, but he would not specify.

    That investigation led to Newberry's car, where police found a can of Clear Out, a nonlethal spray used to temporarily incapacitate a person by causing eye and skin irritations.

    When questioned further at the school, Newberry spoke to police about tactical methods of defeating body armor and said he trains every weekend, using at least 1,000 rounds, police said.

    The Lakeland police officer interviewing Newberry "felt that it was very unusual that Newberry … would talk of killing people in such a calculated way, especially with three police officers present," the affidavit states.

    Newberry was arrested on the school weapon charge, related to the spray, two days later on Oct. 5. He was released the next day. Thomas said Newberry has been expelled from the school.

    Newberry's stepfather, Mark McNeill, has turned firearms belonging to Newberry over to the Lakeland Police Department for safekeeping, police said.

    McNeill told police that Newberry's mother died in February and that Newberry was having a hard time dealing with it.

    The Life Skills Center, at 407 E. Memorial Blvd., inside a former drugstore, is part of a national chain that serves students who have dropped out of traditional schools or are at risk of dropping out. Students work at their own pace with a Web-based curriculum to earn high school diplomas. Life Skills Center contracts with White Hat Management LLC of Ohio, a for-profit business.

    The search warrant affidavit states that Newberry had been attending the school for five days. Thomas said he had not had problems with discipline.

    The affidavit also shows that Lakeland police and the Polk sheriff's office both produced two reports related to Newberry from February through May of this year.

    The Lakeland incidents involve theft cases in which Newberry was a victim or witness. Reports note the weaponry accumulated by Newberry and state that his stepfather turned much of it over to police for safekeeping.

    News Channel 8 reporter Jennifer Leigh contributed to the story. Reporter Billy Townsend can be reached at (863) 284-1409 or wtownsend@tampatrib.com.

  15. #44
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    So... No history of violence, no prior record (other than as a victim or witness), no threats, no disruption, no indication that any danger was imminent. Yet:

    He is reported to the ATF because he didn't give a store owner a good enough reason for an otherwise legal purchase (imagine being reported to the FCC for buying an R rated movie at Wal-Mart.)

    He is expelled from school for reasons that aren't clearly articulated. A can of (legal) irritant spray in his car? (Legally) wearing body armor? I don't know the school's written policy, but...

    His car is searched because he (insert stereotypical German accent here) "didn't have his papers," i.e. he didn't explain to the officer's satisfaction his perfectly legal actions - to wit, sitting quietly in class wearing an item that is utterly incapable of harming anyone. So, I am assumed guilty of some criminal act simply for not wanting to explain a non-criminal act? What the heck?

    "What are you doing there, citizen?"
    "Mowing my lawn."
    "Why are you mowing your lawn?"
    "I have my reasons."
    "Can I search your vehicle?"

    Does this sound like a reasonable chain of events to anyone.

    From this (a can of irritant), and comments about things he probably learned from TV, movies, and/or video games, a search warrant for him home is procured. Keep in mind, the only criminal act (if it even is criminal to have a can of Clear Out under these circumstances) known at this point is that he had a can of irritant in his car.

    So...search his house, get step-dad to hand over all his guns, watch all his home movies, see him shoot up a newspaper vending machine, charge him with a bunch of stuff, and set his bail at SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. Murderers get lower bail than this...it's ridiculous. But that's another story.

    Sorry, this kid is absolutely getting railroaded by a society of cowards, who fear but do not think.

    And, before anyone goes "you don't have any stake in school violence," I have two children in public school in central Florida, not 30 miles from young Mr. Newberry.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    So... No history of violence, no prior record (other than as a victim or witness), no threats, no disruption, no indication that any danger was imminent.
    According the the article quoted, he had a prior arrest for unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon.

    It he's on any form of supervision (pre-trial release on bond, or probation as a pre-trial diversion), then the search of his car requires nothing more than an LEO interested in searching his car. We don't know from the article, but it seems entire possible that he was on some form of correctional supervision.

    Matt
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