Switzerland moving to ban guns - are we next?

This is a discussion on Switzerland moving to ban guns - are we next? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; And here I was just trying to justify purchasing an AR-15 and a 50 cal. Its starting to get easier! Z...

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Thread: Switzerland moving to ban guns - are we next?

  1. #16
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    And here I was just trying to justify purchasing an AR-15 and a 50 cal. Its starting to get easier!


    Z

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  3. #17
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    “It seems absurd and outdated to refer to the need for security in the face of terrorist threats.”
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  4. #18
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Currently, anti-patriot claims and harassment by the current Administration aren't that far removed from those same tactics.
    Just curious, but who exactly has been harassed?

    And I seem to recall Murtha calling our troops murderers, Kerry saying we terrorize women and chldren, Durbin calling our troops Nazis, Obama claiming we air raid civilians and Reid proclaiming that we were defeated.

    If the Administration were harrassing Americans why are these people allowed to spew their anti-American, treasonous remarks? FDR would have put them in jail, and rightly so.

    As to McCarthy, he was a true American hero. The tarring brush of liberal historians has made him out to be the epitome of evil. Until I became aware of the truth, I thought so too. The fact remains that communists did infiltrate our government and he helped identify them.

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    It's true that it is always an uphill battle in the world with guns.
    The reason it's even more so here is because of the freedom we have
    with them, but....
    I was in Italy last year. They tried to take away guns there several years ago.
    Let me tell you, the Government there is very Socialist, in fact it's almost Communist.
    The only thing that they changed in Gun laws was that citizens could no longer own Hollow Points.
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  6. #20
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    I think during discussions like these it's sometimes important to remember that America is not, and has never been a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. If we were a democracy the second amendment might be in trouble. I believe that most politicians and judges seem to forget this fact. The founding fathers were against a democratic government for obvious reasons.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Just curious, but who exactly has been harassed?

    And I seem to recall Murtha calling our troops murderers, Kerry saying we terrorize women and chldren, Durbin calling our troops Nazis, Obama claiming we air raid civilians and Reid proclaiming that we were defeated.

    If the Administration were harrassing Americans why are these people allowed to spew their anti-American, treasonous remarks? FDR would have put them in jail, and rightly so.

    As to McCarthy, he was a true American hero. The tarring brush of liberal historians has made him out to be the epitome of evil. Until I became aware of the truth, I thought so too. The fact remains that communists did infiltrate our government and he helped identify them.
    SelfDefense, you've said it much better than I could have. I can't believe how many believe everything they hear in the "Mainstream" media.

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  8. #22
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    And I seem to recall Murtha calling our troops murderers, Kerry saying we terrorize women and chldren, Durbin calling our troops Nazis, Obama claiming we air raid civilians and Reid proclaiming that we were defeated.
    And each instance of this sort of thing should be hammered for what it is.

    As to McCarthy ... the tarring brush of liberal historians ...
    While I, myself, am too young to have lived through those times, I have (as many do) family members who lived through those times and who didn't get their information from 50 follow-on years of broad-stroked, mainstream media. Never said that HUAC didn't do some good. By the one word notation of "McCarthysim" I meant that the tactics and hysteria employed by McCarthysim were a bad exchange and a dishonorable one, something not required in order to catch spies and achieve justice. It is disturbing so many want to believe what they choose, instead of what occurred, I'll grant you that.

    As for the practical use of such hysteria and anti-patriot claims in the current era, one need not delve into the national archives to find examples. You simply need to watch what has happened. The bullying of the congress into its high-octane mode of rubber stamping has been a thing of beauty. None of that had anything to do with the tactics of intimidation and association, hm? It didn't? In that very real sense, it's similar to McCarthyism in the tactics and basic methods employed.

    Terrorization of a People and oblique attack of an issue in exchange for a few benes, despite the larger costs? Frankly, those are the types of tactics empoyed by those who don't have the facts and can't attack a thing head-on. They are used to great effect by anti-gunners. They were used used by many in the age of McCarthysim, to similar effect. That part of it was evil and a blemish. That's all that was meant. Nothing like what some have dragged into this.
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  10. #24
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    I have said it before, and will say it again, anyone who thinks it can't happen in the United States is wrong. If we don't remain vigilant, continually let our reps know they will not be re-elected if they support bills we are against, stay abreast of what the anti's current plans are and, above all, remain verbal (not be a part of the silent majority) it could happen. Many laws are passed simply because no one knows they're being considered except the very few involved in their introduction.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    While I, myself, am too young to have lived through those times, I have (as many do) family members who lived through those times and who didn't get their information from 50 follow-on years of broad-stroked, mainstream media.
    Though anecdotal evidence might have a comforting personal touch, it does not necessarily represent the facts. The fact is that communism was not only the anti-American idealogy espoused by todays liberals, the Soviet Union was a military enemy. There is no doubt that enemy spies infiltrated our government. Interestingly, the smear on McCarthy was the beginning of liberals (and communists) taking over the mainstream media so it is no surprise that those who 'remember' those times were fed disinformation. Further, much of the information was classified (as it should have been) so it was unavailable to the general public.

    Never said that HUAC didn't do some good. By the one word notation of "McCarthysim" I meant that the tactics and hysteria employed by McCarthysim were a bad exchange and a dishonorable one, something not required in order to catch spies and achieve justice.
    It is telling that some associate the HUAC with McCarthy. He had nothing at all to do with ithat committee. This is simply the continued misinformation concerning McCarthy. The HUAC did have some problems with how they conducted their business, but McCarthy had a specific list of traitors and each and every one was guilty of their crimes. The declassified Verona papers document this extensively.

    As for the practical use of such hysteria and anti-patriot claims in the current era, one need not delve into the national archives to find examples. You simply need to watch what has happened.
    I expected some examples to follow your continued assertion. By the way, do you think Reid declaring defeat in Iraq at a time when our successes cannot even be ignored by the media should be considered unpatriotic?

    The bullying of the congress into its high-octane mode of rubber stamping has been a thing of beauty. None of that had anything to do with the tactics of intimidation and association, hm? It didn't? In that very real sense, it's similar to McCarthyism in the tactics and basic methods employed.
    Since McCarthy was a hero in reality and was completely vindicated in history, it seems odd you would continue to use a misrepresentative smear for your argument. The fact is that Congress is an independent Constitutional body. They do not 'rubber stamp' anything. That is yet another piece of disinformation that has no basis in fact. Perhaps you could give an example of this 'high octane bullying.'

    Terrorization of a People and oblique attack of an issue in exchange for a few benes, despite the larger costs? Frankly, those are the types of tactics empoyed by those who don't have the facts and can't attack a thing head-on. They are used to great effect by anti-gunners. They were used used by many in the age of McCarthysim, to similar effect. That part of it was evil and a blemish. That's all that was meant.
    Are you claiming the Administration is 'Terrorizing the People?' in exchange for benefits? Any examples? Perhaps I am missing your point.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Are you claiming the Administration is 'Terrorizing the People?'
    The fact is that Congress is an independent Constitutional body. They do not 'rubber stamp' anything. That is yet another piece of disinformation that has no basis in fact. Perhaps you could give an example of this 'high octane bullying.'
    Sure, Congress is, ostensibly, completely independent. Reality is somewhat different, given that each bureaucrat is human, holds a political office and is subject to political winds. In that sense, no bureaucrat may vote his/her conscience with complete disregard to the "winds" set in motion by this style of politics.

    The examples of the McCarthist-style mud slinging since 9/11 are everywhere. Consider the lack of real and substantive debate (if it can be called that) in most of the "emergency" defense spending measures that have come up since then. Consider the "Patriot" Act rhetoric, when number of the features were held up as un-American. Such people were usually publicly smacked around a bit, politically. Consider the simple naming of that Act, as witness to the tactics being suggested. Am not saying these things have done no good. What I am suggesting, though, isn't rocket science, that many of the darker tactics of the McCarthist era have been liberally employed to much the same ends, here.

    In short: Same ol', same ol' ... and all of it publicly right out there.

    As for an "exchange" being made, no, that was not the suggestion. Simply said that to get the good that came from the era via the methods employed seems a bad way to get the results, when those tactics weren't required to get them (otherwise known as a "bad exchange"). Didn't say that the government was exchanging something for these things.

    My apologies for all of this. Wasn't aware these things were such a mystery. It's all publicly out there, in the style and nature of rhetoric and debate. Everywhere. The "fear" factor is what I'm talking about. It has, again, become a part of moderan political warfare, to our detriment.
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  13. #27
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    This thread is off topic and not a CCW Issue. It is closed and moved.
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