Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated - Page 4

Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated

This is a discussion on Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by simon Ya know,I think that if a car cost you 2 millon dollars in this or any country for that matter there ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    Ya know,I think that if a car cost you 2 millon dollars in this or any country for that matter there would be a whole lot of other problems you would have to worry about besides how much money you have in your pocket...the sky is not falling...
    I do not know about you, but I can remember when one could buy a car for 5% of what they cost today. Theoretically if we project that to thirty-five years from now a $25,000 car will be $500,000. (Not my exaggerated $2M. That would take another 15 years or so.)


  2. #47
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    Gumball Immigration

    P.S. you may want to consider how much longer (older) a young person starting in the work force will have to work before he can retire and to support us "baby boomers" and illegal aliens.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    Ya know,I think that if a car cost you 2 millon dollars in this or any country for that matter there would be a whole lot of other problems you would have to worry about besides how much money you have in your pocket...the sky is not falling...
    A Ford Model T cost less than $100. They would have said the same thing about a car costing $10,000.

    The fact is, when the FED prints money, it's a tax that no elected official voted on. It reduces the value of what you have in savings and gives that value to whoever gets the favor of a government contract. That is theft.
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  4. #49
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    As a side question. why has Paul not distanced himself from this nonsense. If he had any hope at a run for the presidency, especially as a Constitutional originalist, being associated with this unconstitutional money is certain doom.
    I still don't see what's illegal or unconstitutional. The company stipulates that it isn't legal tender, just a tool for barter.

    If this is illegal, then me trading one gun for another is illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailormnop View Post
    The fact is, when the FED prints money, it's a tax that no elected official voted on. It reduces the value of what you have in savings and gives that value to whoever gets the favor of a government contract. That is theft.
    Ummm.. the Federal Reserve doesn't print money....
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  5. #50
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    last 2 paragraphs says it all

    Feds raid 'Liberty Dollar' operations in Idaho and Indiana
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho -- Federal agents have raided sites in Idaho and Indiana linked to the "Liberty Dollar," a silver coin used by groups that oppose the Federal Reserve System and the federal income tax, a newspaper reported.

    FBI agents seized records and dies for casting the coins at three locations Thursday in this north Idaho resort town, and FBI and Secret Service agents also raided the headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, known as NORFED, in Evansville, Ind.

    The raids were confirmed by four sources close to the investigation who asked not to be identified, and a notice was posted on the Internet by NORFED founder Bernard von NotHaus, according to The Spokesman-Review of Spokane.

    NORFED has produced an estimated $20 million its own paper currency in the past decade, claiming the $1, $5 and $10 bills were backed by silver coins stored in Coeur d'Alene. The raids were the first direct federal challenge to that operation, the newspaper reported.

    NotHaus, a self-described "monetary architect" and Federal Reserve System critic, started NORFED while he lived in Hawaii in the late 1990s as a tax-exempt, nonprofit organization.

    "We never refer to the American Liberty as a coin," von NotHaus told The Spokesman-Review in 1999. "The word 'coin' is a government-controlled term. This is currency that is free from government control."

    Since 1998 the coins have been made at Sunshine Minting, which also produces a variety of precious metal products.

    "When the people own the money, they control the government," von NotHaus said. "When the government owns the money, it controls the people."

    The organization reportedly was preparing to sell and distribute "Ron Paul" dollars to support the Texas congressman in his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. Paul previously ran for president as a Libertarian.

    Law enforcement sources told the newspaper that dies used to produce the coins were seized at the minting company and records were taken from two local accounting firms.

    Kootenai County sheriff's deputies said they were unaware of the raids. Federal authorities in Idaho referred inquiries to the U.S. attorney's office in the Charlotte, N.C., which could not be reached for comment late Thursday.

    Tom Power, owner of Sunshine Minting, did not return telephone calls Thursday, but other employees told the newspaper he was present at the time of the raid.

    The Web notice, purportedly issued Thursday by von NotHaus, said, "I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

    "For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that were just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files and computers and froze our bank accounts."

    Purchasers with pending orders were asked to be patient.

    "We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the U.S. Constitution," the notice said.

    The U.S. Mint recently issued a statement saying "prosecutors with the Department of Justice have determined that the use of these gold and silver NORFED 'Liberty Dollar' medallions as circulating money is a federal crime."

    "Consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items should be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender."

    ---

    Information from: The Spokesman-Review, http://www.spokesmanreview.com

    Hmmm,didn't someone already try this?Are they in a prison somwhere?

  6. #51
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    I just noticed that for a group that dislikes federally-printed & issued money it seems that they sure did not mind getting paid with it.
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  7. #52
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    "When the people own the money, they control the government," von NotHaus said. "When the government owns the money, it controls the people."

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    I just noticed that for a group that dislikes federally-printed & issued money it seems that they sure did not mind getting paid with it.
    Maybe they use it to play monopoly in their headquarters?
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  9. #54
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    somehow I doubt it
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  10. #55
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    He also has no problem accepting those evil greenbacks for his legal defense fund...wonder if his lawyers are playing Monopoly with it?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    He also has no problem accepting those evil greenbacks for his legal defense fund...wonder if his lawyers are playing Monopoly with it?
    Well, it's not like he has a choice. There is an actual currency of this country. It blows because it's created out of thin air constantly, but we have one.

    His barter pieces idea is awesome because it's actually worth something tangible at the end of the day. I can understand of course why the government would make it look illegal. It shows how silly fiat money is.

    It's the same logic of why I'd use social programs even though I don't believe in them, I'm forced to pay for them via taxes. He's forced to use fiat money, so he's going to use it.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  12. #57
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    I'm just joking, of course - perhaps a bit caustically, but I mean no real disrespect. On the other hand, printing a face value on anything is tatamount to "fiat" money, is it not? If it were a true barter instrument, it would be up to the parties involved to determine its value...

    Also, you know what? Fiat money is the universal currency of the entire world - it's not like the US is out on a limb with this one. Yes, the value of it could disintegrate if the Govt. disintegrates...but then again we could discover a new silver lode of unimaginable proportions that throws the value of silver into the toilet... I say again - NOTHING has inherent value. Not silver, not gold, not anything. The market (or, more specifically, the individual buyer and seller) ssigns the value, and the market can always change.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The issue as to whether the Liberty currency is a good idea is irrelevant to its legality. I think that it is a very bad idea to circulate private money for a number of reasons. The main reason is that there would be nothing to prevent counterfeiting.

    Money is an important aspect of a society and a government. The Founders recognized that and wrote specific rules and authority to maintain a sound currency. Money can ONLY be gold or silver in the form of coin and ONLY Congress and the States can mint coinage. Period. Everything else in unconstitutional. The Founders knew very well the evil of fiat currency, which is why the type of allowable money is severely restricted.


    The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional; it is not Congress. Federal Reserve Notes are also unconstitutional; they are not gold or silver coin. The notes (even if backed by gold) have been challenged in court but the fiat notes have continually been upheld. Why? Because we have already gone down the one way street. A correct finding that our money is unconstitutional would result is a real collapse of the economy and then our nation.

    The only thing that would be worse is a private money like Liberty coming into circulation. There is no problem buying a commemerative coin. It is quite another thing trying to use it as money.
    I have a comemorative dollar that is done for Ft Brag CA. for their Skunk Featival (which is a train) every year and is worth 1 dollar for products purchased there. So why is it OK and the Liberty Dollar not?
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  14. #59
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    Or how about Mickey Bucks at Disney World?

  15. #60
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    Micky Bucks and Skunk Fair tokens aren't the same thing, and you guys must know that... They are NOT barter instruments, in that they have no claimed value outside other than to the entities that produced them. If you only used Liberty Dollars to buy stuff at the Liberty Dollar store, that would be one thing, but the biggest claim of the company is that these are "real" money, and have value everywhere, for everything.

    Again, I'm not saying that "barter instruments" are a bad thing on the whole, just that by printing/stamping a face value on the things, you are changing them from barter instruments into "fiat" money - the very devl that the company claims to despise so much...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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