Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated

Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated

This is a discussion on Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; You may or may not agree with the concept of a privately held currency as an alternative to the Federal Reserve Bank system. I am ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
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    Liberty Dollar raided, silver and gold confiscated

    You may or may not agree with the concept of a privately held currency as an alternative to the Federal Reserve Bank system. I am am a supporter and I'm withholding judgment until I see what shakes out on this one. Seems a bit of an over-reach by the Fed to me.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

    I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

    For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

    We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

    But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

    This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

    The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

    I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

    Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

    Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

    Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

    If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

    Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

    Bernard von NotHaus

    Monetary Architect


  2. #2
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    Hmmmm.... The only news agency that seems to be carrying this is the "Evansville Courier and Press," and it seems that the only reason they are doing so is because the Liberty Dollar company is based in Evansville. The FBI directed all questions to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney's Office (and when was the last time the Feebs let a press opportunity pass them by?), and the spokesperson for the US Attorney's office there had "no information on the investigation.

    Since the company is, in effect, renigging on all orders and claiming to have nothing (no metal, no records, no nothing), I have to say this smells fishy. I hope, for your sake considering you seem to have an interest in the company, that it all works out...but for me, the smell test has been failed. Good luck.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Ron Paul Dollars? Sounds like one shaky outfit to me.
    Les Baer 45
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    N.R.A. Patron Life Member
    M.C.R.G.O.

  4. #4
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Hmmmm.... The only news agency that seems to be carrying this is the "Evansville Courier and Press," and it seems that the only reason they are doing so is because the Liberty Dollar company is based in Evansville. The FBI directed all questions to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney's Office (and when was the last time the Feebs let a press opportunity pass them by?), and the spokesperson for the US Attorney's office there had "no information on the investigation.

    Since the company is, in effect, renigging on all orders and claiming to have nothing (no metal, no records, no nothing), I have to say this smells fishy. I hope, for your sake considering you seem to have an interest in the company, that it all works out...but for me, the smell test has been failed. Good luck.
    I didn't, personally, have any problems with orders. There was a backlog of some specialty minted items (the Ron Paul Dollars [Ron Paul's' likeness on a $1.00 piece vs. George Washington]) due to a reported high demand.

    The lack of coins, records etc. are due to confiscation by the FBI raid. I am interested to hear what charges were leveled.

    The competition with the Fed Reserve, may be something not to trifle with??

  5. #5
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    I'm interested to hear if there was actually a raid at all....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #6
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    The Liberty currency is clearly illegal. The whole barter explanation is nothing but a sham for its true intent, which is to be competing (foreign) money. Anyone who took part in this illegal conspiracy deserves criminal penalties. This one is not hard at all..

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 >

    486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal

    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title[1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

  7. #7
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    They claim they aren't "coins," but rather "barter instruments." I could really care less - you could trade an ounce of un-minted silver with no issues, or an ounce of truffles, for that matter - but in my layman's opinion it walks like coins, it talks like coins, it looks like coins...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #8
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    Just FYI


    Selling on Ebay from $50 to $99
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  9. #9
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    First let me state that I have no opinion about this group. That said there are quite a few companies that mint commemorative coins for just about anything, out of various precious metals, so just what is the issue with some company doing just that as long as they make no claims as to being legal tender other than their intrinsic value? As to the paper stuff anyone ever heard of stock certificates?

    Just looked at their site "IT'S REAL MONEY!
    The Liberty Dollar is real, private currency that you can use instead of your familiar US dollars. You can spend Liberty Dollars just like U.S. dollars. "
    I would say busted!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The Liberty currency is clearly illegal. The whole barter explanation is nothing but a sham for its true intent, which is to be competing (foreign) money. Anyone who took part in this illegal conspiracy deserves criminal penalties. This one is not hard at all..

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 >

    §486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal

    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title[1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    Must be why Andrew Williams himself said it wasn't illegal...

    They've been in use for over a decade. Or are gift certificates now illegal money also?
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  11. #11
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    Must be why Andrew Williams himself said it wasn't illegal...

    They've been in use for over a decade. Or are gift certificates now illegal money also?
    That's correct, Gift Certificates, American Express Travelers Cheques, Pay Pal electronic money, tokens at the amusement park, toll booth or festivals, in-store credit. If I offer you an M-1 Garand for your used motorcycle, that is a trade if we both agree.

    This isn't the only privately issued and spend money in the USA.

    I believe if there isn't any problem. Liberty Dollar is in the middle of a lawsuit against the Federal Government and this MAY be their way of scaring them off.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The Liberty currency is clearly illegal. The whole barter explanation is nothing but a sham for its true intent, which is to be competing (foreign) money. Anyone who took part in this illegal conspiracy deserves criminal penalties. This one is not hard at all..

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 >

    486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal

    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title[1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    You could be right. It could be illegal, although the "except as authorized by law" part can make things interesting. Nevermind the part about TITLE18 being completely IMMORAL and spits in the face of everything the forefathers faught and died for. And no, I have no stake in said company.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  13. #13
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    You could be right. It could be illegal, although the "except as authorized by law" part can make things interesting. Nevermind the part about TITLE18 being completely IMMORAL and spits in the face of everything the forefathers faught and died for.
    The issue as to whether the Liberty currency is a good idea is irrelevant to its legality. I think that it is a very bad idea to circulate private money for a number of reasons. The main reason is that there would be nothing to prevent counterfeiting.

    Money is an important aspect of a society and a government. The Founders recognized that and wrote specific rules and authority to maintain a sound currency. Money can ONLY be gold or silver in the form of coin and ONLY Congress and the States can mint coinage. Period. Everything else in unconstitutional. The Founders knew very well the evil of fiat currency, which is why the type of allowable money is severely restricted.

    The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional; it is not Congress. Federal Reserve Notes are also unconstitutional; they are not gold or silver coin. The notes (even if backed by gold) have been challenged in court but the fiat notes have continually been upheld. Why? Because we have already gone down the one way street. A correct finding that our money is unconstitutional would result is a real collapse of the economy and then our nation.

    The only thing that would be worse is a private money like Liberty coming into circulation. There is no problem buying a commemerative coin. It is quite another thing trying to use it as money.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    Just looked at their site "IT'S REAL MONEY!
    The Liberty Dollar is real, private currency that you can use instead of your familiar US dollars. You can spend Liberty Dollars just like U.S. dollars. "
    I would say busted!
    It spends like real money... as long as the recipient knows what he is getting. The fact that they are shaped like coins might be a problem, but in reality it's just a convenient way to use gold and silver for barter.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The only thing that would be worse is a private money like Liberty coming into circulation. There is no problem buying a commemerative coin. It is quite another thing trying to use it as money.
    What happens when you trade your commemorative coin to me for a gallon of gas. Is it currency, or barter?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  15. #15
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
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    Here is an update from The Liberty Dollar's website.

    The raid was conducted and assets seized. The search warrant claimed the assets were the gains from illegal activity, namely money laundering.

    I am not 100% certain this whole affair passes the smell test. I will withhold judgment, (Innocent until proven guilty.). I still like the idea of a value-backed currency, LD may be exonerated.

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