November 27th, 2007 06:12 PM
Besides me, who here wants an electric car? (long)
I want one. I want one now.
GM built the EV1 back in the mid-90's and then discontinued the program after they got California to repeal the ZEM initiave. But before they were all returned to GM, some against the lease holders wishes, the EV1 was a great start into the electric car field. By the time the program was killed it could go about 100 to 120 miles on a charge.
Now, I think my family is pretty normal. In fact, I think we are very much like 90% of the families in this country. I would say, 90% to 95% of the gasoline we buy is used to carry myself and my wife to our respective jobs. It is burnt on the workday commute.
Now, if I could purchase a couple of small 2 to 4 seat, completely electric cars that get 80 to 120 miles per charge, a standard already achieved in 1996, just for my wife and I to commute to work and back in, we would decrease out gasoline consumption by 90% to 95% per month! We buy about 320 gallons per month between the two of us. Adjust that to figure that we buy about 288 gallons for the commute to and from work and that leaves you with 32 gallons that we use for other reasons. Trips to the store, to ball games and practices. All activities that we could still use the electric cars for. In fact, we would only need one gasoline powerd car, a mini van, for long distance trips to visit family or go on vacation.
At $2.95 per gallon (the price on average here in our end of Tennessee) we buy $944 of gas per month. That is $11328 per year! I could take a big vacation on that. I could buy several guns. I could do so much more for my family with that money!
Now, figure that my family is very much like most families in the USA. if we all, or most of us converted our everyday cars to electric, think of the reduction of dependancy on oil from the middle East we would accomplish! We could tell the middle East to get bent! We might even screw up their economies! It is win-win. And there would be less polloution to boot!
Now, you might say, "But Mike, if the car needs to be charged at night, we would be just shifting the producer of the polloution from the car itself to the power plant."
Not true. At least not completely true. Read this passage from the website for the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokille.../electric.html
So tell me, if you read all of my rant, sorry it is a long one, who out there besides me is about ready to demand that the car companies drop the stupid Hydrogen fuel cell car concepts and build an electric car right now? If gas gets much more expensive, I'm not sure I can afford to drive to work. How will our economy survive if we all can't afford to drive to our jobs?
The “long tailpipe” theory argues that electric vehicles do not really
create zero emissions, because the electricity needed to charge the batteries is produced in power plants. In June 2001, the Argonne National Laboratory released a US Department of Energy-sponsored study that found that battery-powered electric vehicles result in a 35% reduction in greenhouse gases.  This reduction was based upon electricity generation from the national grid, roughly half of which is derived from coal and roughly 30% of which is derived from clean, renewable sources like nuclear, solar, wind, biomass and hydroelectric power.  In 2004, an analysis of data from a California Air Resources Board staff report on greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles found that electric vehicles resulted in a 67% reduction in overall greenhouse gases in California, compared to a car powered exclusively by gasoline, and were nearly twice as effective in reducing greenhouse gas emissions than a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle.  California’s energy grid is considerably cleaner than the national grid, with roughly 20% of the state’s electricity being generated via coal-fired plants. 
Finally, some energy experts and utility analysts contend that millions of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles could be added to California’s fleet without substantially impacting the state’s current energy grid, since most of the charging for the plug-in hybrid electric vehicles could be done during off-peak hours, at night.  . It’s estimated that 5,000 plug-in hybrids charging at night would represent less than 0.1 % of peak electrical demand in the state.  Moreover, they would also have strong beneficial environmental impact, since a plug-in hybrid vehicle that gets its energy from the grid during off-peak hours is thought to produce one-third the carbon dioxide emissions of an exclusively gas-powered car with a fuel efficiency of 24 mpg.  Tim Lippman of UC Berkeley’s Institute of Transportation Studies also points out that not only is our state and national grid becoming cleaner with increased use of renewable energy sources, but also that it is much easier to control emissions from a relatively small number of power plants than millions of tailpipes, each being a point of emissions and harmful, respiratory pollutants. Lippman also notes that emissions modeling research shows that when it comes to the concentration of harmful pollutants emitted from burning fossil fuels, height matters; the closer to the ground the emissions are, the more they tend to concentrate, making emissions from tailpipes at ground-level potentially more damaging than those from a coal-fired plant’s smokestack, which may be 200 ft. or more of the ground. 
I urge everyone to look at this website http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
Read the facts and see what you think.
Ok.....now I will climb down off my soap box and stop ranting for the day. I just am sick of being so reliant on Arab oil. They are screwing us with the price of oil and they know there is nothing we can do about it. If they really wanted to, they could wreck our economy almost over night. Why we continue to be so dependant on the very people who want to see us suffer and to crush our culture is so far beyond my understanding I can't even put it in words.
November 27th, 2007 06:22 PM
Holy crap. How long is your commute? I like the idea of an electric car and I wish they'd put one out. As of now, I've found I can save the most money by riding a motorcycle year round. Yeah, I freeze my butt off during the winter and if it's snowing and sticking I have to make an alternative plan, but I spend 20 bucks a month on gas (roughly). It's a little more now that the dollar has pooped again and gas is going up.
Maybe not the best alternative, but something you can look into for now.
...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller
November 27th, 2007 07:05 PM
Electric cars suck up here since they are so close to the ground. If I didn't live so far from work, I'd use my Mt. bike most days. 30 miles one way is just too far.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
November 27th, 2007 07:21 PM
I want a electric 4X4 truck. Like supertac45, we have deep snow and many dirt & less than smooth roads here.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 27th, 2007 07:28 PM
It is interesting to me, that one of the purported worse producers of greenhouse gases is generating plants, but if they charge vehicles it reduces greenhouse gases.
Further, electricity is not cheap. It will cost significantly to recharge a vehicle so that cuts into the 'gasoline' savings. Then, in about 3-5 years that battery will need to be replaced. That's not going to be like replacing a car battery. The amount of battery needed for reasonable vehicle needs will cost a lot!
I have some concerns about the safety of EVs. Not from the standpoint of the batteries, but from the relaxed safety standards given to EVs to promote them. In order to offset carrying around an enormous weight of batteries, weight has to be shed other places. EVs do not stand up well in roll-over or collision tests - just too much battery weight on too light of a frame etc. If you put the batteries on a standard vehicle frame, the thing's so heavy it compromises performance.
Some people might find EVs workable, others would not. Hills would be challenging for EVs and deplete the batteries much faster than level driving. And, no, you can't get all the charge back when you go down the other side of the hill. Batteries have a charge absorption rate which limits how much charge they can absorb, at what rate, over what period of time.
Then there is the problem of what to do about heating and air conditioning. Standard, conventional compressor driven AC would suck a lot of juice out of the batteries, reducing range significantly. Some heat could be supplied from the waste of the controller and motor inefficienies, but that likely wouldn't be enough, so some supplimental heat source would be needed. If electric is used, there goes the range again. If you use a kerosene heater, there's the greenhouse gases again.
In colder climates or in the winter time, the cold can reduce the battery capacity to half what it would be on a summer day. There goes the range again.
Just some things 'they' don't tell you.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
November 27th, 2007 07:56 PM
My mothers neighbor has a Prius and while not completly electric its close. It's really and awesome car. He let me drive it and more than comfortable. If i could a 4x4, I'd buy tomorrow.
God Bless America!!
November 27th, 2007 07:59 PM
I would Love to have an electric car!
This is the one I want!!! http://www.teslamotors.com/
0-60 in under 4 seconds and the top speed is 125mph.
Can even plug it in at any outlet.
November 27th, 2007 08:08 PM
I'd buy an EV1 for my next car if it were available today and less tha $20k (I'd be willing to pay more, but couldn't afford it presently). Not just about the $$ saved on fuel, BUT BUYING ARAB OIL SUCKS!. Well aware of it's limitations, but it could still cut out about 75% of my gas usage. If the rest of it came from home-brewed ethanol that'd be even better.
November 27th, 2007 08:19 PM
Here some things to consider:
-Electricity to recharge electric cars...IS NOT FREE! It will raise your electric bill substantially! People have the misconception that electricity is cheap...not in some places in this country. We pay $.045/kw, some places are twice that! (& guess were the power comes from............coal or oil fired generation plants.)
-The initial cost of the vehicle is more. Just take a hybrid as an example...they cost $7000- $10,000 more than an regular auto. (not to mention that the actual mileage ratings have been lower than expected)
-Range on electric cars is currently very poor! Less than 100 miles.
-What happens if you forget to plug it in....or...you don't have access to a plug at your destination? You can't just fill it up on every corner.
-Batteries are now considered hazardous waste & disposal will be an issue. Replacement battery pack will be about $5,000 (plus disposal)
-Battery powered cars typically are more economical if you only commute short distances & less than hi-way speeds....under 50 miles per day & under 50mph.
It really boils down to weight...if you want it to cost you less money to drive....you need to be pushing less weight.The lighter the car, the less energy to move it.
(I work with large battery strings on a regular basis & they aren't something I would want in a vehicle.)
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
November 27th, 2007 08:22 PM
Electric cars and hybrids are underpowered. I prefer a motorcycle. I drove 8k miles last year getting 45 mpg. The engine is larger than most small car engines. 1600 cc to be exact. I didn't have to shell out big dollars for it. You all need to hug a tree and you'll feel better soon.
November 27th, 2007 08:30 PM
Even if you need 30 KWH to charge the car, then it'd cost me about $2.50 to fill'er up (I pay .083 cents per kwh). If that got me 100 miles the the cost to drive would be like getting 120 MPG, if gas cost me $3/gallon. (which is lower than current prices around here)
Batteries in the trash are bad, but pale in comparison to the waste produced in the manufacture of gasoline, if compared mile for mile.
November 27th, 2007 08:38 PM
Without all the massive expansion from the last century caused by greed, there would be no need for anything but comfortable walking shoes. I wish I didn't have to drive at all - but since I do, I'll take something reasonable. My truck gets 18+ in the city and 21 on the highway - plus its a truck. It can do things a battery powered car can't, and I only need 1 of them. (JMO)
November 27th, 2007 09:06 PM
I want one of these it looks like alot of fun and good fuel economy to boot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g12_f...eature=related
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November 27th, 2007 09:55 PM
Various forms of energy have taken turns being the most expensive...natural gas, fuel oil, diesel, electric...
Be very sure, that if everyone switched to electric...electric rates would climb even more than they already have...
It's always about the $$$...
Do you really think that the car companies couldn't design vehicles that could get 60-80 miles to the gallon...soon? We put a man on the moon and we can't get vehicles (all of them) to jump the 50 mpg marker?
Ride a bicycle, or walk...it's the only way you're going to beat the big companies...
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
November 27th, 2007 09:57 PM
I think we are going to see a lot more bikes on the road, heck, we already are.
I've noticed more of everything from 50cc scooters to the big 1600cc cruisers.
I'm ready to swap out the knobbies on my dual sport bike for something a little more suited for the road. Or maybe I'll just trade the sucker in for a road bike.
Just today I was out and about with my son and we saw a smart car in the parking garage. It was the first one I've seen and I'm sure its not going to be the last. It really didnt look all that bad in person.
I still think the air car is something really cool. I hope it really works and takes off in the states.
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