Why are the brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture?

Why are the brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture?

This is a discussion on Why are the brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Found these news articles where they go to great pains to delve into internal matters. By the way you'll love some of the facts in ...

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Thread: Why are the brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Why are the brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture?

    Found these news articles where they go to great pains to delve into internal matters. By the way you'll love some of the facts in the first one.

    We don't get this excited about their shootings or politics.

    Why do they?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wuspols122.xml

    Florida 'shoot first' law helps gangsters

    By Toby Harnden in Merritt Island, Florida
    Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 20/11/2007

    A ground-breaking law designed to allow the victims of crime to open fire without first trying to get away is allowing gangsters to get away with murder, according to law enforcement officials.

    Two years ago, Florida became the first state to pass the "Stand Your Ground" or “Shoot First” law that gave people the right to open fire if they felt threatened on the street or in their car. The legislation was championed by the powerful National Rifle Association.

    Craig Carson says pro-gun judges often pass lenient sentences for gun crimes

    The new law extended the so-called “castle doctrine”, which allowed residents to shoot would-be burglars, to outside the home with the intention of giving legal protection to victims who opened fire during hold-ups or car jackings.

    At least 15 more states have passed similar laws while others are considering doing so. But an unintended consequence of the law has been that those arrested after gangland shoot-outs have a ready-made defence and prosecutors are often reluctant to recommend charges.

    Gun control advocates hope that the new law will become an election issue in 2008. But Democrats are wary of aggravating the gun lobby and Republican candidates all support the Second Amendment, which gives citizens gun rights.

    Last month, Martorell Williams, 16, was shot dead by a 19-year-old youth from a rival gang when both opened fire simultaneously in a Waffle House car park in West Cocoa on Florida’s space coast, home of Cape Canaveral.

    The 19-year-old, a convicted criminal who was therefore not allowed to possess a weapon, survived his wounds but walked free.

    “Under the previous law, he would have been charged,” said Gary Harrell, a homicide deputy sheriff who investigated the case. “It’s a travesty. The kid’s killer was a convicted felon and should not have had a firearm. Now he’s free to kill somebody else – or be killed.”

    Last year, in another Florida case, Kenneth Allen shot his neighbour Jason Rosenbloom, who was unarmed, twice in the stomach and chest after an argument over rubbish bags left on the pavement. He was not charged.
    Crossing America: Toby Harnden's voyage across the states
    Follow Toby Harnden as he travels from coast to coast to weigh up the mood of US voters

    Lawyers representing two gang members who opened fire and killed a girl of nine in 2006 announced that they intended to cite the “Stand Your Ground” legislation as justification for shooting.

    Agent Harrell said the new law was only one factor exacerbating gun violence.

    Other major reasons were the ready availability of illegal guns and the reluctance of prosecutors to enforce existing laws

    Agent Craig Carson, who works with the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms task force in Florida’s Brevard County, said judges with a strong pro-gun stance often pass lenient sentences for gun crimes.


    “They just don’t believe in gun control and don’t enforce the gun laws. If somebody’s looking at a long time in prison for using a gun they have illegally, then they’re going to stop doing it.

    “But it’s become a never-ending cycle. The criminals have no regard for the law any more and they’re starting to shoot at the cops now. Everyone has a gun here and they’re every easy to come by.”

    He estimated that there were about 250,000 guns in Brevard County, which has a population of 650,000.

    Florida’s lax gun laws mean that criminals from states like New York and New Jersey travel down to buy them and drive them back up the I-95 freeway, nicknamed the “iron pipeline” because of its popularity as an arms route.

    But additional gun controls or repealing the “Stand Your Ground” law is unlikely to become a big election issue.

    “The NRA is so powerful here with our government that it’s very hard to change the gun laws,” said Agent Carson.

    He said that even Hillary Clinton was unlikely to challenge Republicans over guns.

    “Hillary supports the anti-gun agenda but she may be told to shut up because it will cost her votes.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...g/crossing.xml

    Crossing America
    Voters across the US will elect their 44th president in a year's time. The Daily Telegraph’s US editor Toby Harnden and photographer Julian Simmonds are crossing America, travelling by plane, train and car to the four corners of the US to explore the real issues ahead of the 2008 race to the White House.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Even though we don't get "excited" about their shooting or politics, we often on this forum use them as a reference as to what might happen regarding gun ownership in this country. And often they and their laws are spoken of in less than nice terms.

    So I don't think that it is much of a stretch for them to use a story like this for their purposes, whatever that may be.

    “Under the previous law, he would have been charged,” said Gary Harrell, a homicide deputy sheriff who investigated the case. “

    This statement is of concern even to me. If he was a previous felon, he should be back in jail for having or using a firearm.

    But basically, I don't really care what they print in their papers. They can think what they want as far as I am concerned.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    I was unfamiliar with the events discussed, so I did 2 minutes worth of looking around... Martorell Williams is a 2nd (at least) generation gang banger. Charges for killing Williams were not filed against the gang banger who shot him because Williams was the aggressor. Charges related to felon in possession of a handgun were being considered (I was unable to find out if they had been filed, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't do so).

    Hey, one gang banger shot another one, who was shooting at him at the time. AFAIC, that's one less on the streets.

    I suppose gang bangers don't kill each other in the UK, right? (google "gang violence" + UK) Yeah, that's what I thought.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    They miss having a colony. They would still like to see us "civilized."

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    Probably try to spin it up in fear to keep their populace under control.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    Probably try to spin it up in fear to keep their populace under control.
    that's a winner, from what I can tell.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I thought the castle-doctrine law wasn't applicable if in the commission of a crime. If you are a convicted criminal, and you have a gun (ergo, breaking the law), then you can't use this law to protect you. Either I have it completely wrong, or some activist DA isn't delving into the fine print and will use this case (or others like it) to get castle-doctrine changed/overturned.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Why are Brits so fascinated with our gun and political culture?

    Perhaps a better question would be, "Why are we so fascinated with a few inbred members of British society who happen to be mere figureheads in their government?"

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I thought the castle-doctrine law wasn't applicable if in the commission of a crime. If you are a convicted criminal, and you have a gun (ergo, breaking the law), then you can't use this law to protect you. Either I have it completely wrong, or some activist DA isn't delving into the fine print and will use this case (or others like it) to get castle-doctrine changed/overturned.

    How does my tin foil hat look?
    Shiny?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  10. #10
    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out how criminals from New York and New Jersey legally purchase firearms in Florida. I have heard I-95 called many things, but "Iron Pipeline"? That's a little melodramatic, don't you think?

  11. #11
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    Last month, Martorell Williams, 16, was shot dead by a 19-year-old youth from a rival gang when both opened fire simultaneously in a Waffle House car park in West Cocoa on Florida’s space coast, home of Cape Canaveral.

    The 19-year-old, a convicted criminal who was therefore not allowed to possess a weapon, survived his wounds but walked free.

    “Under the previous law, he would have been charged,” said Gary Harrell, a homicide deputy sheriff who investigated the case. “It’s a travesty. The kid’s killer was a convicted felon and should not have had a firearm. Now he’s free to kill somebody else – or be killed.”
    I did a search and found this at Florida Today:

    A convicted drug dealer is back in jail today on several weapons charges after Brevard County Sheriff’s deputies found a revolver in the restroom of the Waffle House that had been the site of a recent fatal shooting.

    Oneal Bradley, 23, is being held without bond at the Brevard County Detention Center in Sharpes on charges of carrying a concealed weapon, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, violation of probation and driving while license suspended.

    His next court date is Nov. 16.

    Deputies on security detail at the Waffle House at 4465 W. King St. in west Cocoa saw a maroon Mercury turn into the parking lot without braking properly, nearly driving over the curb, a report said. They saw Bradley get out of the car, stagger into the Waffle House and order food, the report said.

    One deputy reported seeing that Bradley’s eyes were bloodshot and found an open bottle of cognac on the passenger seat.

    Bradley went to the restroom, then came out of the restaurant to ask deputies what was going on, the report said. They told him about the open container, and asked for a driver’s license when he told them it was suspended.

    A records check showed it had been suspended since 2004. A warrants check showed that Bradley was on felony probation. Deputies issued citations for driving with a suspended license and having an open container of alcohol.

    Remembering that Bradley had gone into the bathroom, one of the deputies went inside to check and came out with a revolver he’d found in the trash can. They put Bradley in cuffs and he told them he carried the weapon for protection because his cousin was involved in the Sept. 22 shooting, the report said.

    Martorell Williams Jr., 16, was killed in that 3 a.m. shootout. Two 19-year-olds were injured. The parking lot was filled with about 300 people at the time.

    Cocoa police immediately stepped up patrols after learning Williams was the fatal victim. His father is a convicted felon and suspect in several shooting incidents, police said.

    Cocoa Police believe a shooting in early October was an act of retaliation.

    Bradley also told police that he’d been receiving death threats.

    He signed an affidavit acknowledging he understood his Miranda rights and was taken to the county jail. A subsequent criminal background check disclosed that he was a convicted felon on probation.

    Court records show he was convicted in 2005 for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

    Deputies seized the car, the cognac, and a cardboard box suspected to contain base cocaine and a razor blade with cocaine residue that was sent to a crime lab for fingerprint analysis because the car didn’t belong to Bradley.

    Other charges are pending the outcome of the fingerprint results.

    Deputies also recovered an revolver and cartridges.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  12. #12
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    Simple: because they are jealous. You can see their envy in their movies!
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    Member Array LMarshall73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigsauer View Post
    Simple: because they are jealous. You can see their envy in their movies!
    3 triggers, and each one has a finger on it...

    I've noticed in most action movies now everyone's finger is along the slide. Maybe having technical advisors is finally starting to pay off...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    We don't get this excited about their shootings or politics.

    Why do they?
    (Only partially joking:) We're the fish that got away?

  15. #15
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    We will always be the ''evil, gun-totin' America" to most outsiders ... including UK.

    At every chance they'll try and villify and hype things up - to help maintain their position of gun impotence (for the law abiding folks that is!).

    If they don't allow them (legal guns) - they gotta keep the peons afraid of them! That way blissninnies might feel more secure, like ''oh my, the lovely Gov looking after us - I feel so safe"

    </sarcasm>
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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