Teen Kills Himself Playing Russian Roulette - Page 3

Teen Kills Himself Playing Russian Roulette

This is a discussion on Teen Kills Himself Playing Russian Roulette within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by flagflyfish I personally feel kinda strange when cleaning a revolver, and having to look down the muzzle to check the barrel. I ...

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Thread: Teen Kills Himself Playing Russian Roulette

  1. #31
    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    I personally feel kinda strange when cleaning a revolver, and having to look down the muzzle to check the barrel. I know the cylinder is swung out, or removed and the gun is safe, but it still gives me a strange feeling.
    Same. I was cleaning a pistol yesterday... had the slide and grips off. I turned it pointing towards me to see into one area, and *still* felt uncomfortable!

    I feel for the family. By the time I was fourteen, my dad was comfortable with me handling firearms, and comfortable enough around that time to start putting a home-defense shotgun by the bed. He was right and justified, having drilled gun safety and respect into me and my older brother for years, and he certainly had more to fear from home invasion in Tucson than from stupid kids.
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Does anybody actually believe that they intended to completely empty the cylinder?

    "One kid took the bullets out and spun the chamber and handed it to Anthony," Pacheco's grandmother, Ann Alfrey of Stokesdale, N.C., said. "He put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger."
    The boys thought they'd removed all the bullets, she said, but one remained. The shot killed Pacheco instantly.
    The death is being treated as accidental.
    Why are they treating this as an 'accidental' death? If there is any point to putting a revolver in your mouth and pulling the trigger, you are either trying to kill yourself right then and there or trying to get a thrill from gambling with your life.

    What would be the point of going to a roulette table, not placing a bet, and telling the guy to "Spin the wheel, just for fun..."

    IMO, the other kid should be charged with murder. He stole his father's gun, gave it to Anthony and said "Its unloaded, Tony. Point it at your head and pull the trigger. It will be fun."

    "I'd like to tell other parents that if they own a gun, please lock it up. Kids will be kids and they don't think..."
    How about we teach kids to think by making them responsible for their actions instead of pretending that murder is an accident?

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    AZTEC A teenage boy accidentally shot himself to death this week playing Russian Roulette, his family said.
    I beg to differ. If he was playing Russian Roulette, it was not an accident. It was the un-avoidable outcome of stupid people doing stupid things.

    Thankfully, this person removed themselves from the gene pool before they could reproduce and have children every bit as stupid as they were.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array ridurall's Avatar
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    No accident, just stupid. I grew up with guns in the house and I knew if I ever messed with them without my father present I'd be without along with a butt whipping. I've got a 6 year old son and knows quite a bit about guns and that they are not toys. I still keep them locked up if they are not on me. As soon as he could walk and climb I made a pact that I would never come home and take my gun off and lay it down without putting in either one of the vaults or my bed room 2 gun safe. When he was 4 he found my sisters 9mm in their trailer while they were visiting. He came out of her room and told us without touching it. Exactly what we had taught him. He still remembers us bragging on him doing the right thing. I no longer worry about locking my vaults while I'm home as he is great about staying out of them but when he asks to shoot we get them out and get with it. Yesterday after school we shot the CZ .22 bolt action at steel swingers. Education is the answer to prevent these stupid mistakes.
    Life member NRA since 1983
    I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.

  5. #35
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    One of the problems is that as a 6 year old they will listen and obey you but when they reach 14 they then know as much as you. It is like most people that do anything over and over they become complacent. By then they think they know everything but from scientific studies they lack the brain development to actually make the proper decisions about risks. This development usually take place until about age 25. There will come a time where he wants to experiment, hopefully the training that he had at age 6 will be enough to carry him through.

  6. #36
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    Young teens do stupid things every day (lots of 'em)...I work with them...they do. If this kid was basically a good kid, doing something stupid, it really is a shame. If the kid was a doofus, doing something stupid...well, it caught up with him.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Kids do stuff like this. You'd be amazed. They think they're acting a scene out from a movie - only their prop is a real gun loaded with live ammo. It can't ever really be an accident when someone puts a gun in their mouth and pulls the trigger and dies - but chances are the kid thought nothing was going to happen. Stupid is as stupid does...

    Austin

  8. #38
    Member Array phaed's Avatar
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    glad he won't be reproducing
    War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    According to opencarry.org there are at least 4 states (NH, ME, MO, WY) that have no age limit to Open Carry a firearm and 2others (AK, MT) that require a person to be 14. I don't know the exact laws but I take it that they are correct.
    FN,

    I thought that to be hard to believe.

    So I went to the state website for the first of the 6 states, NH, as they are the most 'free' of the freedom states to investigate.
    The below law references are what I found and is exactly what I'd expected which are IMHO reasonable and sensible conditions and minimum requirements of applicability...

    TITLE LXII
    CRIMINAL CODE
    CHAPTER 650-C
    NEGLIGENT STORAGE OF FIREARMS
    Section 650-C:1
    650-C:1 Negligent Storage of Firearms. –
    I. Nothing in this section shall be construed to reduce or limit any existing right to purchase and own firearms or ammunition, or both, or to provide authority to any state or local agency to infringe upon the privacy of any family, home or business except by lawful warrant.
    II. As used in this section, ""child,'' ""juvenile'' or ""youth'' shall mean any person under 16 years of age.
    III. Any person who stores or leaves on premises under that person's control a loaded firearm, and who knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or guardian, is guilty of a violation if a child gains access to a firearm and:
    (a) The firearm is used in a reckless or threatening manner;
    (b) The firearm is used during the commission of any misdemeanor or felony; or
    (c) The firearm is negligently or recklessly discharged.
    IV. Any person who violates paragraph III shall be fined not more than $1,000.

    V. This section shall not apply whenever any of the following occurs:
    (a) The child has completed firearm safety instructions by a certified firearms safety instructor or has successfully completed a certified hunter safety course.
    (b) The firearm is kept secured in a locked box, gun safe, or other secure locked space, or in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure, or is secured with a trigger lock or similar device that prevents the firearm from discharging.
    (c) The firearm is carried on the person or within such a close proximity thereto so that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.
    (d) The child obtains or obtains and discharges the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person.
    (e) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premises which are under such person's custody or control has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.
    (f) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry of any premises by any person or an illegal taking of the firearm from the premises of the owner without permission of the owner.
    VI. A parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies of an accidental shooting shall be prosecuted under this section only in those instances in which the parent or guardian behaved in a grossly negligent manner.

    Source - CHAPTER 650-C NEGLIGENT STORAGE OF FIREARMS
    The NH law toward concealed carry makes no note of an age restriction because it doesn't need to. The books already have a statement toward limitation of possession muchless ownership under the above section which supplements that of the carry law as found at section 159:6...

    Section 159:6
    159:6 License to Carry. –
    I. The selectmen of a town or the mayor or chief of police of a city or some full-time police officer designated by them respectively, upon application of any resident of such town or city, or the director of state police, or some person designated by such director, upon application of a nonresident, shall issue a license to such applicant authorizing the applicant to carry a loaded pistol or revolver in this state for not less than 4 years from the date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property or has any proper purpose, and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed.

    Source - CHAPTER 159 PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS
    As well a child would very likely not be deemed to meet the above required condition muchless be deemed a "suitable person" by a selectmen of a town or the mayor or chief of police of a city or some full-time police officer designated by them respectively, or or the director of state police, or some person designated by such director.

    Further it also states...

    Section 159:12
    159:12 Sale to Minors. –
    I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
    II. This section shall not apply to:
    (a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.
    (b) Individuals instructing minors in the safe use of firearms during a supervised firearms training program, provided the minor's parent or legal guardian has granted the minor permission to participate in such program.
    (c) Licensed hunters accompanying a minor while lawfully taking wildlife.
    (d) Individuals supervising minors using firearms during a lawful shooting event or activity.

    Source - CHAPTER 159 PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS
    And then they even have a specific statement toward "Self-Defense Weapons"...

    Self-Defense Weapons
    Section 159:20
    159:20 Self-Defense Weapons Defined. – In this subdivision:
    I. ""Electronic defense weapon'' means an electronically activated non-lethal device which is designed for or capable of producing an electrical charge of sufficient magnitude to immobilize or incapacitate a person temporarily.
    II. ""Aerosol self-defense spray weapon'' means any aerosol self-defense spray weapon which is designed to immobilize or incapacitate a person temporarily.

    ...

    Section 159:22
    159:22 Restricted Sale. – Any person who knowingly sells an electronic defense weapon to a person under 18 years of age shall be guilty of a violation.

    Source. 1986, 46:1, eff. May 5, 1986.

    Source - CHAPTER 159 PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS
    If the state specifically states that self defense weapons are not to be sold to anyone under the age of 18 and that to do is a misdemeanor, and that's just for an electronic or aerosol weapon. Then there is no way they are going to be okay with a child possessing a firearm for carry be it open or concealed, and again no authorizing agent is going to approve as much either.

    I didn't look into the other five states but I'd bet that if a person spent 30 minutes doing so per any one of them as I did here then they would come to the same findings and conclusion.
    Additional information toward NH law in general can be found at; New Hampshire General Court Legislation Text Search.
    I hope to never see or hear of in modern times a 14 yr. old or any aged child/juvenile/youth carrying a firearm for purpose of personal protection open or concealed on the streets.
    Application of a firearm within ones home under duress of loss of life or limb that is an exception that is reasonable and recognized by most state laws too as being acceptable and excusable.

    Back to the case at hand though.
    Kids may be kids and they get into things but that is no excuse nor reason to make no attempt at being a responsible parent and gun owner, and to secure ones firearm and ammunition...which most likely is required by law within ones own state under child protection laws if not that of public safety. Further it's the responsible and moral thing to do. A simple cable lock would suffice and can be had for no cost and no question from any local police or state police station. A simple lock box with a combination lock or even keyed lock (with the key securely hidden) would suffice never mind a proper guns safe.
    What happened in this case is very much unfortunate but it was as well very much preventable and not just with education of the gun owners own child by by proper and reasonable securing of the firearm, which was not the case not even remotely.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I blame the parents for not educating their kids...this is what happens when ignorance of guns and what they can do, prevails.

    Curiosity killed this teenager.

    Education and discipline was greatly lacking.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I blame the parents for not educating their kids...this is what happens when ...
    The kid was 14yrs old. I blame stupidity, not training per se. Though it couldn't have hurt, IMO it was not the cause.

    By the age of four, one clearly understands the benefits of avoiding jumping off a roof head-first, avoiding smashing rocks agsinst your own head, and keeping your hand out of the lawn mower. At 14, he new damned well that guns kill. Anyone that has seen a modern, violent film knows this.

    At 14, basic sense should prevail. But then, sense isn't as common as it once was.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member Array ridurall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    One of the problems is that as a 6 year old they will listen and obey you but when they reach 14 they then know as much as you. It is like most people that do anything over and over they become complacent. By then they think they know everything but from scientific studies they lack the brain development to actually make the proper decisions about risks. This development usually take place until about age 25. There will come a time where he wants to experiment, hopefully the training that he had at age 6 will be enough to carry him through.

    Your right but at least the way my father taught me about weapons I never messed with them without his permission. I did carry a Ruger .22 revolver at our cabin in the mountains of Colorado and took a lot of grouse for supper but it was with Dad's permission. We had a lot of disagreements about other stuff and at 18 years old I didn't think Dad was very smart. At the age of 22 my father had a lot more wisdom. I got lucky with my daughter she thanked me for being tough when she was 19 years old. I just hope my son does the same. It never intered my mind to carry guns in town as a teenager.
    Life member NRA since 1983
    I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.

  13. #43
    Member Array johnsr's Avatar
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    in texas a person under the age of 21 may not buy a handgun.. however they can be armed security officers. after training qualification. also they can rent a handgun at the shooting range to qualify for security officer certification.. etc etc.

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    I hope to never see or hear of in modern times a 14 yr. old or any aged child/juvenile/youth carrying a firearm for purpose of personal protection open or concealed on the streets.
    Rifles and rights (A must read!)

    First part of article

    POST FALLS -- Zach Doty is raising eyebrows by taking the Second Amendment for a walk.

    Doty, who turned 18 last month, has been stopped by police twice in the past month after citizens spotted him with a loaded 9mm Glock pistol in a hip holster in plain view.

    No citations were issued because Idaho code allows residents 18 and older to openly carry a firearm in public. To carry a concealed weapon, you must be 21 and have a permit.

    The second time officers checked out Zach -- on Sunday at Poleline and Greensferry -- his 15-year-old brother, Steven, was carrying a .22-caliber rifle in a sling on his back. Again, there was no wrongdoing because teens 13 to 17, with parental permission, are allowed by Idaho law to carry a rifle.

    The home-schooled brothers said they intend to continue to openly carry guns in public on a regular basis for self defense -- both as a crime deterrent and to educate others that it's the public's right.
    I agree with you on teenagers carrying but they are obeying the law.
    Last edited by FN1910; January 13th, 2008 at 01:12 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    How is it an accident when you put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger? I think we should invent a new word for this sort of thing: stupidentally.
    so very true.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

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