McConnell - All your internet are belong to us

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    McConnell - All your internet are belong to us

    The Raw Story | US drafting plan to allow government access to any email or Web search

    "US drafting plan to allow government access to any email or Web search

    National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell is drawing up plans for cyberspace spying that would make the current debate on warrantless wiretaps look like a "walk in the park," according to an interview published in the New Yorker's print edition today.

    Debate on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “will be a walk in the park compared to this,” McConnell said. “this is going to be a goat rope on the Hill. My prediction is that we’re going to screw around with this until something horrendous happens.”

    The article, which profiles the 65-year-old former admiral appointed by President George W. Bush in January 2007 to oversee all of America's intelligence agencies, was not published on the New Yorker's Web site.

    McConnell is developing a Cyber-Security Policy, still in the draft stage, which will closely police Internet activity.

    "Ed Giorgio, who is working with McConnell on the plan, said that would mean giving the government the autority to examine the content of any e-mail, file transfer or Web search," author Lawrence Wright pens.

    “Google has records that could help in a cyber-investigation, he said," Wright adds. "Giorgio warned me, 'We have a saying in this business: ‘Privacy and security are a zero-sum game.'"

    A zero-sum game is one in which gains by one side come at the expense of the other. In other words -- McConnell's aide believes greater security can only come at privacy's expense.

    McConnell has been an advocate for computer-network defense, which has previously not been the province of any intelligence agency.

    According to a 2007 conversation in the Oval Office, McConnell told President Bush, “If the 9/11 perpetrators had focused on a single US bank through cyber-attack and it had been successful, it would have an order of magnitude greater impact on the US economy.”

    Bush turned to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, asking him if it was true; Paulson said that it was. Bush then asked to McConnell to come up with a network security strategy.

    "One proposal of McConnell’s Cyber-Security Policy, which is still in the draft stage, is to reduce the access points between government computers and the Internet from two thousand to fifty," Wright notes. "He claimed that cyber-theft account for as much as a hundred billion dollars in annual losses to the American economy. 'The real problem is the perpetrator who doesn’t care about stealing—he just wants to destroy.'"

    The infrastructure to tap into Americans' email and web search history may already be in place.

    In November, a former technician at AT&T alleged that the telecom forwarded virtually all of its Internet traffic into a "secret room" to facilitate government spying.

    Whistleblower Mark Klein said that a copy of all Internet traffic passing over AT&T lines was copied into a locked room at the company's San Francisco office -- to which only employees with National Security Agency clearance had access -- via a cable splitting device."

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    All your internet are belong to us
    Raise your hand if you know the reference!

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    Whistleblower Mark Klein said that a copy of all Internet traffic passing over AT&T lines was copied into a locked room at the company's San Francisco office -- to which only employees with National Security Agency clearance had access -- via a cable splitting device."
    All I can say about that is it must be one heck of a hard drive to copy everything traveling over the Internet or even AT&T's lines.

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    AYBABTU. Nice. Haven't seen that in a while...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Raise your hand if you know the reference!
    Oh Yeah....been awhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910
    All I can say about that is it must be one heck of a hard drive to copy everything traveling over the Internet or even AT&T's lines.
    You might be surprised what the .gov folks have. Also google, yahoo, et. al. store every website on the internet for cached searches. All the .gov folks would realistically need is access to what already exists. I've always said I am more afraid of the big search engines than the .gov folks. The other thing is don't put anything in email or on a website you wouldn't want on the front page of you paper or read at your trial.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Oh Yeah....been awhile.



    You might be surprised what the .gov folks have. Also google, yahoo, et. al. store every website on the internet for cached searches. All the .gov folks would realistically need is access to what already exists. I've always said I am more afraid of the big search engines than the .gov folks. The other thing is don't put anything in email or on a website you wouldn't want on the front page of you paper or read at your trial.

    I know all about that kind of stuff but they say copies everything that treavels over the Internet. That means to copy every page that is delivered each time it is delivered. A web site that gets a million hits would mean a million copies of that page. I work in this and we warn employees regularly that their email is not their property and not private.

    I have people ask me quite often if I can see their email and I answer, "Yes, but I don't have time to read all of mine much less yours".

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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Raise your hand if you know the reference!
    Yeah, I'm an old geek.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    I know all about that kind of stuff but they say copies everything that treavels over the Internet. That means to copy every page that is delivered each time it is delivered. A web site that gets a million hits would mean a million copies of that page. I work in this and we warn employees regularly that their email is not their property and not private.

    I have people ask me quite often if I can see their email and I answer, "Yes, but I don't have time to read all of mine much less yours".
    yeah, but they're not just talking about employee's mail (which we should be concerned with too). The employee might not own it, but someone does. The real issue though is they're talking about EVERYTHING. PRIVATE traffic. If I'm paying comcast, cox, verizon etc... for service and an email box then as far as I, and the court, is concerned I OWN that inbox. It's like renting an apartment. Same concept. The same privacy rules that apply there apply across the board. They're trying to subvert the rule of law.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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    even if they could store every bit of data sent over the internet and have a powerful enough AI run on a highspeed server the number of false hits and pointless claims would be inundating. anyone remember the steve jackson game server? or the famous E911 file. imagine that on a signifigantly larger scale.
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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    yeah, but they're not just talking about employee's mail (which we should be concerned with too). The employee might not own it, but someone does. The real issue though is they're talking about EVERYTHING. PRIVATE traffic. If I'm paying comcast, cox, verizon etc... for service and an email box then as far as I, and the court, is concerned I OWN that inbox. It's like renting an apartment. Same concept. The same privacy rules that apply there apply across the board. They're trying to subvert the rule of law.
    Here we go again with privacy rules. Exactly where are you guaranteed privacy in the Constitution? There is no right to privacy. And the fact is that even if your inbox is the same as your apartment (ie warrant required for search) the truth is that email travels over interstate wires that are not your property. I won't go into the argument how it is nothing like an apartment or dwelling.

    I think it is a great idea that we can search emails and internet traffic efficiently looking for terrorist communications. No, your email or posts are not being read by I. Will Snoop. Mr. Snoop doesn't read that Aunt Betty's husband is having an affair with a tart at the office. Electronic communications are scanned for keywords or phrases that allow us to track down terrorists, criminals and other enemies. That is a good thing. No?

    Articles like this are simply tryng to scare Americans with nonsense like, "The infrastructure to tap into Americans' email and web search history may already be in place."

    Duh! That is the way the internet vrowsers work and has nothing to do with the government. You connect to the internet and your computer is in the public arena.

    Or this bit of fearmongering, "In November, a former technician at AT&T alleged that the telecom forwarded virtually all of its Internet traffic into a "secret room" to facilitate government spying."

    What a shock! The CIA, NSA, FBI have classified labs. I mean 'secret rooms.'

    What is most disturbg is this, "Whistleblower Mark Klein said that a copy of all Internet traffic passing over AT&T lines was copied into a locked room at the company's San Francisco office -- to which only employees with National Security Agency clearance had access -- via a cable splitting device."

    Whistleblower? Sounds to me like he disclosed classified information. Mark Klein should be prosecuted and, if found guilty, he should be spending a number of years in a Federal prison.

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    What a shock! The CIA, NSA, FBI have classified labs. I mean 'secret rooms.'
    Reminds me of the time a fellow was running for office and proclaiming that the local power company kept two sets fo books, one for the IRS and one for the regulators. He was debating theCEO of the power company on TV and aksed theCEO about it. The CEO said not, actually we have to keep about 12 different set of books to meet the requirements of all the different regulatory agencies including three for this state alone. We really wish you would let us keep only one.

    I would be very worried if the CIA and FBI didn't have secret rooms.

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    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Here we go again with privacy rules. Exactly where are you guaranteed privacy in the Constitution? There is no right to privacy. And the fact is that even if your inbox is the same as your apartment (ie warrant required for search) the truth is that email travels over interstate wires that are not your property. I won't go into the argument how it is nothing like an apartment or dwelling.
    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    I have a question for you. Does the government have the right to go through your regular mail without a warrant? Nope. And it is carried by a federal run organization. Snail mail or email. It is the same principle.

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Thanks for providing the text of the Fourth Amendment. After reading it and comparing it to the issue of email and internet traffic I'm sure you also came to the conclusion that is has no relevance at all concerning this issue. Email and internet traffic is not paper or effects. Moreover, that pesky word unreasonable shows up. There is nothing unreasonable about searching communications for evidence of terrorist activity. In fact, it is excellent technology that helps save American lives.

    I have a question for you. Does the government have the right to go through your regular mail without a warrant? Nope. And it is carried by a federal run organization. Snail mail or email. It is the same principle.
    No, email is very different than the postal service. You may think it is the same principle but that does not make it so. If you review US Code Title 18 Section 1701 you will find a law against obstructing or retarding mail delivery. If one were to open and review mail that is clearly delaying it and therefore breakg Federal law. Email has no such protection and scanning elecronic data does not delay delivery.

    Just curious, but what are you afraid of? Do you think terrorists should be able to operate and communicate freely?

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    One difference between email and regular mail is the sealed envelope. Email is like a post card where the body of the message is available for anyone to see. If you send a letter and put the message on the outside of the envelope then you have no expectation of privacy. If you want privacy in your email you better use some form of encryption.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Just curious, but what are you afraid of? Do you think terrorists should be able to operate and communicate freely?

    If they were doing it via the USPS, the governement would not be able to do it unchecked, why should the email be made available unchecked.

    The 4th ammendment doesn't say anything about an automobile, are they able to be searched without some probable cause or a warrant? Does the 4th ammendment say anything about telephone conversations? No, are they protected?

    I don't think that anyone here is afraid of anything other than a goverment that has and will continue to do things that are against the authority given to them by the law and the constitution. If anyone doesn't think they have or will continue to do this, your head has been under a rock someplace.

    The arguement that, if your not doing anything illegal so you don't have anything to worry about is simply ignorant. If your willing to let certain areas of the government do warrantless wiretaps, searches, or email mining, why don't you just go ahead and turn in all your guns too. One right isn't any better than the next, give them all up.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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