This is a discussion on Being prepared within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I was watching the series "Gangland" on the telly last night. It seems there are active gang members in our military.
The percentage is about ...
January 21st, 2008 01:34 PM
I was watching the series "Gangland" on the telly last night. It seems there are active gang members in our military.
The percentage is about 1% which does not sound like anything to worry about, but when you consider the actual numbers in the military it comes to about 10,000 people! This was according to the military. They said it is nothing to worry about, but then last night I was watching another program (Can not remember the name) but they were talking about the ex marine who shot 2 officers. They never stood a chance because of the mans advanced military training. Lucky for one officer who was a retired Army Sergeant recognized the tactics he used.
Now they also said that there was nothing illegal about a gang member joining the military. Just imagine the consequences of the military training these people how to shoot, evasive maneuvering, breaking into homes, how to avoid being shot and then they get out and use this training for their gangs. What or how could we ever expect to protect ourselves against such a thing? And what about places that do not want civilians carrying guns, what if an outbreak occurs and the police are out gunned, out smarted by these type of people?
Seems if civilians were allowed to be armed they could offer assistance. I think now I will make it a personal promise to myself to have all my family trained in such a way by a professional trainer to recognize and deal with attacks that involve military style training what ever the cost may be.
Last edited by P95Carry; January 21st, 2008 at 11:25 PM.
Reason: Para's !
January 21st, 2008 01:34 PM
January 21st, 2008 01:44 PM
Well, having enough training to counter military training is a start.
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
I have my own Marine in my home to help balance everything out.
And let's not forget that a lot of these gang members are joining the military as their only means of escape from the life they have erroneously chosen as a child.
Even if some DO join the military to "get the training" to come back and use it for their gang, by the time they get through boot camp and into service they have had a lot of that "tough guy" attitude beat out of them.
Think about how many young men and women who have joined the military because "they don't like the authority of Ma and Pa" and they are going to do their own thing.
The military sounds great until the moment they step off the bus and onto those yellow footprints. Then they start to understand that mom and dad weren't so bad after all.
Sure, there are plenty of idiots and bad guys in the military. There is still abuse, there is still murder, theft, rape, you name it, but the military is also a place of second chances and life changes.
My brother was a boozed up borderline drugy when he joined the Navy almost ten years ago. Today he's platoon leader, married and an honorable respectable man.
My husband is the most honorable man I've ever met. He has confidence, self assuredness and a love for God, country and Corps that was built upon and deeply buried into him and a lot of it is due to the Marine Corps.
I have met my fair share of idiots in the military, but more often than not the jerk who left for boot camp comes back a changed man.
I think those gang members who find themselves back in the slums after they've gotten out of the military aren't there because that is what they were planning, it was because they used the military as a new way of life. It didn't work out as well as they hoped and after they got out, with no where else to go, they went back to the only life that was accepting them with open arms.
It happens. It's unfortunate.
I'm not too worried that our military is being used as a training ground for gangsta's.
January 21st, 2008 01:51 PM
This "problem" has been around since the first days of standing army's. I would not be so concerned about it.
January 21st, 2008 08:25 PM
You can learn about military "tactics" on the internet. I don't think anything these guys are learning are secrets...you surround somebody, then you shoot them. Or, you just shoot them. Its pretty simple.
Gang members with "military tactics" doesn't sound very worrisome to me. If you live in a place where you can be surrounded and shot to death, it could happen if your enemies had military training or not. JMO
January 21st, 2008 09:34 PM
kinda of a scary show,ive watched it a few times. its truly amazing how
bad the gang thing is across america.(what scares me the most is my
son,he be 13 this summer and i lose alot of sleep thinking about the
gangs these days)
(SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
the world coming too"
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.
January 21st, 2008 11:14 PM
We must be ready for when they get out into the real world. (IMO) Nothing like a taxpayer paid training for the BG. Luckily the taxpayers of America paid for my training, and I'm on the good side. I plan on being ready for almost anything. I pray the Good Lord I am prepared when the time comes. Personally--I'm addicted to life, and gangs only exist because the government permits it. I'll fair better than the average citizen if something like this comes to bear. My training background is the same, and I can also recognize those who would turn to the dark side, and when it happens---I'll have no sympathy for them in times of despair.
It seems there are active gang members in our military. The percentage is about 1% which does not sound like anything to worry about, but when you consider the actual numbers in the military it comes to about 10,000 people!
January 21st, 2008 11:30 PM
I saw this prog and while as Sixto mentions, it's nothing new ... I do believe the gang guys can and will use the mil for recruitment purposes ... and not much can be done to limit that as now.
The gang situation tho across the states is worrysome ... in particular the MS13 growth ... but many other gangs are also pretty sinister. I just wish the anti's would realize that nothing they wish to plan or expedite will harm these guys one bit - when it comes to them being armed .......... never!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
January 22nd, 2008 12:12 AM
Gangs in the Military used to be a lot worse actually, or so my salty Gunny used to tell me.
What! Former Marines shooting people? I don't believe it, next you'll tell me that Oswald and Charles Witman were Marines.....
the ex marine who shot 2 officers. They never stood a chance because of the mans advanced military training. Lucky for one officer who was a retired Army Sergeant recognized the tactics he used.
A bad guy shot two officers...like that's never happened before, regardless of where they learned how to shoot.
There are criminals from all walks of life, and there are veterans from every war that become criminals. I think the media just blows it out of proportion like everything else.
I remember when units began rotating back from Afghanistan, and a couple of Army guys killed their wives, the media was blowing all this PTSD BS, talking about how the war turned these guys into killers, turns out theses guys' wives were cheating all over town on them.
Shooting, ok I'll buy that one, evasive manuevering? Gangsta's learn that from an early age, basket ball anyone? Dodging traffic and stray bullets in da hood yo? Breaking into homes....I must have missed the MCI on that one, can anyone tell me what the ELOs and TLOs were for that class? How to avoid being shot....must have missed that one two, apparently so have all of our wounded veterans.
Just imagine the consequences of the military training these people how to shoot, evasive maneuvering, breaking into homes, how to avoid being shot and then they get out and use this training for their gangs.
Training their gangs? I actually think that might be a good idea, maybe they'll actually hit their targets and not some kid on a tricycle.
Criminals usually only fight against LEOs when trying to escape, they are defensive in nature, unless fighting against another gang or victimizing small helpless groups or individuals. While they will rob you blind given the chance, starting an no BS urban war will draw too much attention to them, and get them arrested and killed. Riots are another story.
What or how could we ever expect to protect ourselves against such a thing? And what about places that do not want civilians carrying guns, what if an outbreak occurs and the police are out gunned, out smarted by these type of people?
Have fun with that, I'll be at home guarding my property and family. Let the Local PD, State Police, and National Guardsmen do their job, walking the streets (pending on locality) armed during a time of crisis is not a good idea.
Seems if civilians were allowed to be armed they could offer assistance.
You're probably better off focusing on defending against small unit, guerilla warfare than conventional military tactics
I think now I will make it a personal promise to myself to have all my family trained in such a way by a professional trainer to recognize and deal with attacks that involve military style training what ever the cost may be.
January 22nd, 2008 12:13 AM
Ive had a few dealing with MS13 now... a lot of them are nothing more than a front, but the core of the gang can be pretty scary.
January 22nd, 2008 02:18 AM
Any well prepared offensive shooter is going to outgear the majority of people in this forum, including leo's.
I fell into the trap of overplanning and purchased a plr-16 you know the kel tec semi auto pistol chambered in .223 for the reason that I didnt want to be out gunned by gang thug, LESSON LEARNED, first I was upset that because of local ordinance I could not carry my shot gun in the trunk of my car, BOO, but I am a law abiding citizen, so no shot gun, SO i get a sub2k carbine as a back up gun, same thing if I travel to the big city I work in they can cite me under local ordinance for having a rifle or shotgun, So being the "smart guy" i figure ok thats just stupid but I will comply with the law, what are my options now? introduce the plr-16 a handgun which I can legally carry (concealed).
Problem is this, If I get into a shootout with heavily armed thugs I done screwed the pooch to start with, but you can bet bottom dollar that if things go sour I am getting heavier firepower, the plr-16 does not do that, it would be great for suppressing fire (not defensive in nature) but for aimed fire its like a pg shotgun, and with a .223 round I am just begging for a lawsuit, so back to the drawing boards, Keep a shotgun in the trunk and risk becoming a criminal, even though my intent is good, or forget the extra firepower (or keep the sub2k on property at the store, knowing if i take it outside it will be confiscated and I will be charged) , well in a defensive scenario if my pistol does not put them down I am boned, with thugs wearing body armor now days I have gone from head shot to thigh shot practice, because even if they are moving up on you if they take a thigh shot they are going to stop walking.
If it is really so bad that I have to get to my plr-16 I would seriously hope that any and all civilians within a 400 yard radius have called 911 and reported a major gun fight, because if i have to retrieve that hand bazooka from my car the odds are there are I am probably one of the kia before the cavalry arrive. SO lesson learned, if I live long enough to get to the plr-16 I know I am going to be in pucker factor 6, so my aim is going to be less than good, PLR-16 is an offensive weapon as far as I am concerned.
No doubt someone here will tell me how they can use one in a defensive situation, but as this is a ccw board I dont see that happening. Big lesson that most in CCW dont remember is move to cover, especially if you are being targeted by suppresive fire, and once you get to cover check your vulnerable sides, and keep looking for better cover, its not your job to take out the guy with the ak/sks/m-16, its your job to survive, if you can stop the threat fine, if you cant, retreat is not something to be ashamed of.
If you still think you need to engage in this circumstance I have a plr-16 I am willing to sell, But you would be better off with a full sized LBR (little black rifle, aka the prosecutors dream when it comes to a conviction)
Last edited by P95Carry; January 22nd, 2008 at 11:25 AM.
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