Cavalry Arms in AZ raided by the ATF

This is a discussion on Cavalry Arms in AZ raided by the ATF within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Feds raid Gilbert business for fraud, money laundering - Phoenix news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News | ABC15.com As of ...

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Thread: Cavalry Arms in AZ raided by the ATF

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Cavalry Arms in AZ raided by the ATF

    Feds raid Gilbert business for fraud, money laundering - Phoenix news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News | ABC15.com

    As of the time they recorded the story and wrote the blurb, they were in the process of seizing all their weapons...

    Edit: Ugh, misspelled the title; maybe a mod will take pity on me and fix it. - THANKS!
    Last edited by matiki; February 28th, 2008 at 11:43 AM.
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  3. #2
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    Fraud and money laundering. OK, would like to see more on that one.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    I know the owner, he's a friend's nephew. Made some great, imaginative parts. Hope there is some error (although the ATF rarely does a raid without plenty of evidence...
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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    At least they didnt burn the joint down too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    This "fraud and money laundering" are the same charges used to shut down Liberty Dollar. Could this be the way gov'mint shuts down businesses? Then in court they loose or drop the charges AFTER they are devastated? I heard this was a tactic used in the 80s to effectivly reduce the number of gun shops.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Now do you really think your government would stoop so low as to use tactics like that to close down a perfectly legal business?
    Glock 27
    BENELLI NOVA

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    Now do you really think your government would stoop so low as to use tactics like that to close down a perfectly legal business?
    Specially ATF, they have never done such things in the past

    OK this just got weirder:
    ATF agents raid Gilbert gun shop | EastValleyTribune.com

    ATF agents spent hours executing a federal search warrant there, but agency spokesman Thomas Mangan declined to say what prompted the seizure of what he called a “large quantity” of weapons.

    “By no means is that any indication of any type of guilt,” Mangan said.

    Still, every gun that was at the business on Wednesday was confiscated in the raid, he said.
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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    At least they didn't shoot his wife in the head...
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    At least they didn't shoot his wife in the head...
    That was the FBI - let's keep our federal agency bashing straight...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    That was the FBI - let's keep our federal agency bashing straight...
    I work with the Feds almost on a daily basis..FBI and DEA mostly, but have come across the ATF from time to time. Mostly they are good people, with a few tool boxes thrown in here and there, but its still fun to bash an agency that had/has poor leadership and is under the thumb of a larger bureaucracy.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Evidence has been given inour House of Rep. already in regards to HR666

    Currently, one protection afforded by the "exclusionary rule" is that evidence seized during an illegal search will be excluded from trial.(1) But under H.R. 666, evidence seized from an otherwise illegal search could be introduced in a trial if the officers can show they were acting in "good faith." In essence, officers could easily find something to justify their actions after the fact.

    The BATF is notorious for doing this already.

    In June of 1971, four BATF officers burst into the home of Ken Ballew. The tragic events which followed show clearly how renegade officers will always try to justify their actions after brutalizing the innocent. Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) explained on the House floor what happened: BATF first entered an apartment upstairs where they held a shotgun at the head of some 8-year-old children. When they found they had raided the wrong place, they then went downstairs, and they broke through a back door in the man's home. . . . They seized the man's wife and threw her into the hall in only her underpants. Mr. Ballew was coming out of the shower with a cap and ball revolver seeking to defend his home and his wife against a noisy band of intruders who bore no indicia of their service as law enforcement officers.

    The result? BATF officers shot Mr. Ballew in the head. If he is still alive today, he is disabled and still partially paralyzed, incapable of speech -- and unlike Jim Brady, he has never been available for Congressional testimony.

    After the assault, the officers quickly began justifying their actions. Dingell explains:

    They [the BATF officers] went outside, still dressed as hippies with beards and in scruffy clothes, and at which time they first put on their BATF armbands to show that they were law enforcement officers engaged in proper exercise of their legal authority, and that they had given proper warning to the individual of their authority which, in fact, they had not.
    The officers immediately tried to justify their actions. And while Mr. Ballew did not have illegal evidence, this case clearly demonstrates how officers will always want to justify their actions. It's human nature. At times, they may even be willing to lie.

    "Indeed, the [Ballew raid] was classed as a training exercise," Rep. Dingell explained. "This whole unfortunate matter was covered up under the aegis of Mr. Connelly, the then-Secretary of the Treasury."

    This legislation will encourage cover ups. It will encourage warrantless searches and seizures, and the subsequent justification of actions. If this legislation becomes law, officers may find it's much easier to justify their actions after they've collected substantial evidence from an innocent victim, rather than demonstrating ahead of time to a judge that they have probable cause.

    What if "illegal" evidence had been found in Mr. Ballew's apartment? Would that mean that Mr. Ballew -- an otherwise law-abiding, decent person -- was in reality a violent thug? Hardly. Would, say, an "illegal" handgun found in his apartment have justified the treatment that Mr. Ballew received? Never. But could the BATF have invented reasons after the fact to "show" their raid was executed in good faith? Probably.

    Some will say that honest people would never have illegal evidence in their possession. But does such a claim stand historical scrutiny?

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    That was the FBI - let's keep our federal agency bashing straight...
    And they were called in by none other than the American Gestapo, so I still blame them.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I work with the Feds almost on a daily basis..FBI and DEA mostly, but have come across the ATF from time to time. Mostly they are good people, with a few tool boxes thrown in here and there, but its still fun to bash an agency that had/has poor leadership and is under the thumb of a larger bureaucracy.
    Hey, I am a fed, and nobody gives the Feebs, the DEA, and the BATFE more crap than I do. I do, however, think it's funny that many automatically assume that there was/is some sort of evil conspiracy to cook up charges, frame the innocent, and otherwise act improperly... All the article really says is that they served a warrant, something that happens how many thousands of times a day?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Hey, I am a fed, and nobody gives the Feebs, the DEA, and the BATFE more crap than I do. I do, however, think it's funny that many automatically assume that there was/is some sort of evil conspiracy to cook up charges, frame the innocent, and otherwise act improperly... All the article really says is that they served a warrant, something that happens how many thousands of times a day?
    I'm with ya... the article doesnt say much of anything, thats why my panties are not all twisted up over nothing.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by raevan View Post
    In June of 1971, four BATF officers burst into the home of Ken Ballew.

    37 years ago? Do you realize that anyone working for ATF when this case happened would have reached mandatory retirement years ago? In 1971 there were a lot of law enforcement agencies using questionable tactics.
    Gonzo
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