Toddler dies in gun accident?

Toddler dies in gun accident?

This is a discussion on Toddler dies in gun accident? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Police: Toddler fatally shot himself while father slept -- OrlandoSentinel.com Police: Toddler fatally shot himself while father slept FDLE will analyze a .38-caliber revolver to ...

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Thread: Toddler dies in gun accident?

  1. #1
    Member Array Mercalf's Avatar
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    Toddler dies in gun accident?

    Police: Toddler fatally shot himself while father slept -- OrlandoSentinel.com

    Police: Toddler fatally shot himself while father slept
    FDLE will analyze a .38-caliber revolver to determine whether the 22-month-old boy's death was an accident.
    Etan Horowitz | Sentinel Staff Writer
    10:28 AM EDT, March 10, 2008
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    Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Fark Google Newsvine Reddit Yahoo Print Reprints Post comment Text size: A 22-month-old boy was shot and killed early Sunday in what the boy's father told police was an accident that occurred while the adults in the Ocoee home were sleeping.

    Ocoee police are investigating and have not determined whether the shooting was an accident or if they will pursue criminal charges, according to Bill Richardson, a police spokesman.

    Police said an autopsy was being performed today and officials said detectives would be interviewing family again once they have more information. The toddler's name, nor that of his father, was released because police said it was an ongoing investigation.


    About 12:42 a.m. Sunday, police responded to a home in the 900 block of Keaton Parkway and found family members holding the child at the door. Members of the Ocoee Fire Department Emergency Medical Team attempted to revive the child, but were unsuccessful and declared him dead.

    The father, who police would not identify, told police that everyone was asleep when the boy woke up, found a .38-caliber revolver and accidentally shot himself, Richardson said.

    The gun belonged to the father but it was not registered or listed as stolen, Richardson said. That type of gun typically is a "double-action" revolver, which requires the shooter to exert a lot of pressure on the gun for it to fire, he said.

    "Normally you wouldn't think that a child that small could pull the trigger with that kind of action," Richardson said. "But there could be a malfunction, or a spring could be loose."

    He also said .38-caliber revolvers usually have about a 10-pound trigger pull, so the shooter essentially has to be able to lift 10 pounds. "That would be a like a 22-month old toddler picking up two gallons of milk, which is kind of hard," Richardson said.

    The gun is being sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to be analyzed. Richardson urged other parents to make sure their guns are secured and kept out of the reach of children, adding that Ocoee gives away gun locks.

    Richardson would not identify the child, citing an ongoing investigation, and said the boy's mother does not live at the home. In addition to the father, there were other adults in the house, including the boy's grandparents.

    Police are awaiting autopsy results before deciding whether to file charges, Richardson said.

    If police determine that the child's death was accidental, the father could be charged with a felony under Florida law. In 1989, Florida became the first state in the nation to pass what is known as a Child Access Prevention law, according to the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. Under the law, storing or leaving a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor that is then used by the minor to harm themselves or another person, is a third-degree felony, which is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine.

    The home is on a quiet street in the Admiral Point subdivision. On Sunday, no one appeared to be home and no one answered the phone.

    Several neighbors said they did not know the boy or his father.

    "This is really sad," said a neighbor who would not give her name. "But it makes me absolutely livid at the same time that that little boy will not have the opportunity to grow up and experience life because someone did not put a lock on that gun."
    I heard the 911 call on the news, have to say that I don't think it was an accident. The possibility of a toddler even operating a gun.... Either way, it's a very sad story. If the toddler in fact did shoot himself, the parents should be thrown away and the keys locked up. Rediculous..
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercalf View Post
    I don't think it was an accident. The possibility of a toddler even operating a gun.... Either way, it's a very sad story. If the toddler in fact did shoot himself, the parents should be thrown away and the keys locked up. Rediculous..
    I agree 100%.

    One of three things happened here, in my estimated order of likelihood:

    1) Parents are guilty.
    2) Gun was kept hammer-back over a live cartridge and was left in a place the toddler could find it.
    3) Extremely low chance of a malfunction does exist but it's probably lower than being struck by lightning. Anyone ever heard of a double action trigger suddenly getting really light?

    In either the first or second case, the parents should fry for it. A through examination of the gun should be able to confirm or rule out the third possibility, too.

    Try to update this thread when more info on the case becomes available, please. I'm curious to see how it ends. It's a tragedy either way for sure.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    1) Parents are guilty;
    2) For all other questions, which are wholly academic, see 1.
    Fixed.

    - Janq is parent of a 20 mo. old
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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    I agree whole heartedly with Janq.
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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Something really sticks here. There is no way a 22 month old baby is going t pull a 10 lb trigger. This is a out right murder any way you look at it.
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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    + 1 on all the above. Responsibility lies with the parents no matter what.

    I'll bet the ranch that there's more to it then initially reported though.

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Sad, very sad. If, as reported it is a DA trigger, and the hammer was not cocked, it seems unlikely that a 22 month old could pull the trigger. But then, you have to ask the question, why would the parents behave in such an obviously foolish, guilty way? There must be more here that meets the eye... including the possiblity that this was a "large, strong, toddler". We'll have to wait and see.
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    Senior Member Array Rossman's Avatar
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    tragedy

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    I agree with everyone else. But I have to point out the stupidity of something in the article:

    "That would be a like a 22-month old toddler picking up two gallons of milk, which is kind of hard," Richardson said.
    So... pulling a DA revo trigger is like lifting two gallons of milk with your finger? I hope the police spokesman was just misquoted.

    Purely academic, I know, and I agree Janq... it's neither here nor there, we know who is at fault.
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    Member Array TheSamurai's Avatar
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    if... the child was holding it with thumb over trigger he/she could most likely pull the trigger... he/she could have fallen and definately exerted enough force also. there are so many possibilities to how it could have happened. was it neglect and aoidable? absolutely, though it still could have been accidental. i'm sure the autopsy will prove some valid points.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSamurai View Post
    if... the child was holding it with thumb over trigger he/she could most likely pull the trigger... he/she could have fallen and definately exerted enough force also. there are so many possibilities to how it could have happened. was it neglect and aoidable? absolutely, though it still could have been accidental. i'm sure the autopsy will prove some valid points.
    Yep, thats why they accidentally shoot themselves and not the wall. They turn the gun around so they can use their much stronger thumbs. They can even use both of them at once and can indeed pull the trigger. You'd be suprised at the grip some little babies have. 22months? That almost 2 years old! May Dad live in misery for his stupidity.
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    3) Extremely low chance of a malfunction does exist but it's probably lower than being struck by lightning. Anyone ever heard of a double action trigger suddenly getting really light?
    Even if there was some such strange malfunction, there is still negligence in leaving the gun where the toddler could get to it unnoticed. In that event, the charge may 'only' be Excusable Homicide, which is a little different from Manslaughter and might have some different sentencing guidelines. Most likely if there are charges they will plead down to some sort of criminal negligence.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    There are a number of ways that weapon could of discharged,maybe the child actually cocked the hammer,if dad had been playing with the gun while kid was watching you would be surprised what they retain.But the bottom line is when you have children in the house you have to protect them from themselves,I know that in Kansas they have a law on the books that says your firearm has to be behind lock and key to prevent a child from getting and firing that weapon,such as a trigger lock.If a child gets your firearm and discharges it you are responsible.

  14. #14
    Member Array Mercalf's Avatar
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    The possibilty was never looked at on HOW THE HELL a toddler could even hold the gun?? There's no way the baby's hands could have been big enough 1. Two, again the trigger pull. Three - at 22 months, this baby must have been running a very sophisticated brain (unlikely when the parents are that stupid) to hold the gun, considering most babies/toddlers are just learning to use their hands for functionality at about a year and a half - two years.... COME ON!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercalf View Post
    ...this baby must have been running a very sophisticated brain (unlike ... the parents...

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