VT Cops get Governor's award for high body count

VT Cops get Governor's award for high body count

This is a discussion on VT Cops get Governor's award for high body count within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Va. Tech police cited for teamwork -- -- dailypress.com Va. Tech police cited for teamwork By the Associated Press May 8, 2008 RICHMOND, Va. - ...

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Thread: VT Cops get Governor's award for high body count

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    VT Cops get Governor's award for high body count

    Va. Tech police cited for teamwork -- -- dailypress.com

    Va. Tech police cited for teamwork

    By the Associated Press
    May 8, 2008

    RICHMOND, Va. - The action by Virginia Tech police to storm a building (after waiting for the bodies to pile up)as a gunman inside shot 30 people dead last year won the agency a Governor's Award for teamwork.

    The awards, made annually to recognize notable work by state employees, also went to seven individuals on Thursday.

    Campus police were recognized for their teamwork with other law-enforcement and rescue agencies during Seung-Hui Cho's April 16, 2007, rampage and for bravery.

    "Officers from the department entered Norris Hall that day while shots were still being fired. Officers chose to run toward the gunfire and an unknown risk without regard for their own safety. Many had no time to put on protective gear such as bulletproof vests," the commendation for the department read.

    Aren't LEOs supposed to run towards gunfire? Why didn't they have vest on already?

    Cho killed himself before officers reached him, ending a massacre that left 32 others dead.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    Aren't LEOs supposed to run towards gunfire? Why didn't they have vest on already?
    No, not really, suicide isnt part of the job... and most tac team members dont sit around waiting geared up and ready to go at a moments notice.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    I am with Sixto (and I am not a LEO). Police should not storm a building without exactly knowing what's happening, while gun fire is still audible. At the very least they need to formulate some kind of plan/strategy to enter the building and move in it. E.g. they need to at least look at the layout, better talk with someone who knows the building. Then decide from which side to enter and how to proceed. This will take at least 10-15 minutes.

    Last thing you want to have happen: different officers entering the building from different sides, without coordination, shooting at each other while the BG escapes.

    Its always easier to figure out what should have happened after you got all the facts. I doubt the officers arriving at the scene knew much of what was doing on (how many gun men? how many students? possible exits from the building? rescue personel?... lots of variables to this)

    It doesn't work like in 24 or other TV shows where Jack Bauer has immediate access to building layouts and CCTV footage on his cell phone.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Sup paramedic70002? Say--I don't mean to be nosy, or pushy, or presumptuous, and I know you must be under alot of stress in your job and all, and sometimes you feel the weight of the world on your shoulders. I've been there before. IMO, you need a vacation, some time to relax and get out of that before you go cracked. Ever go to the gym and hit on the bag for a while? Anyway--that's what I see. If I saw you in person on a daily basis, I'd know more, but find a way to get rid of that frustration inside. From one forum family member to another.

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Sup paramedic70002? Say--I don't mean to be nosy, or pushy, or presumptuous, and I know you must be under alot of stress in your job and all, and sometimes you feel the weight of the world on your shoulders. I've been there before. IMO, you need a vacation, some time to relax and get out of that before you go cracked. Ever go to the gym and hit on the bag for a while? Anyway--that's what I see. If I saw you in person on a daily basis, I'd know more, but find a way to get rid of that frustration inside. From one forum family member to another.
    Huh? The only stress I get around here is wondering IF we will get a call today...

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    No, not really, suicide isnt part of the job... and most tac team members dont sit around waiting geared up and ready to go at a moments notice.
    That's not what I meant. I'm sure we all remember the video of LEOs running up behind trees and watching. Yes I know there are a thousand variables and ten thousand things we don't know cause we weren't there.

    Not talking about SWAT. Assuming the campus cops didn't think they would need vests under their shirts. Also thinking about the policy that many departments instituted after Columbine, that the first 3 or 4 officers would immediately form a team and move in. This was done at Trolley Square. And yes I know the doors were chained.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Well then, yes, officers are supposed to run toward gunfire, but it is against human nature and most people will not do that...LEO's or not.

    Vests... yes, likely they would have a level 2 or maybe a 3 on, but if going to a known gun fight I will but on a heavier raid vest over everything else if there is time to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I'm sure we all remember the video of LEOs running up behind trees and watching. Yes I know there are a thousand variables and ten thousand things we don't know cause we weren't there.
    Oh, those guys... the ones setting up a perimeter to contain a unknown amount of shooters with unknown weaponry while their buddies went in side to find out exactly what was going on... yeah, I remember them.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    They may have done a good job, given the circumstances....but they didn't stop the shooter.....He did that himself.

    Giving them an award for setting up a perimeter & cleaning up the mess?..........I think there are some others more deserving.......like the ones who tried to stop Cho.......Oh, I forgot, the only one who appeared to have done anything was a professor who died while holding his door shut to keep BG out......

    Moral of this story: There are plenty of sheep to go around....... Sheepdogs are hard to find.......
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I don't see where any award is really warranted,It's all political feel good BS,I wonder how long the moron who thought this up sat around trying to figure out how to word it to make it sound like they did anything beyond what they should of done in the first place
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002
    The awards, made annually to recognize notable work by state employees, also went to seven individuals on Thursday.
    So how come the professor who held Cho back behind a door was not recognized? Hmmm...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    I really didn't want to get involved in this, but I just have to say something.

    Anyone who runs towards gunfire or runs into a burning building, etc. DESERVES an award. I don't care if you think it's their job or not.

    So these guys didn't charge in, guns blazing, and rip the shooter to shreds. If he hadn't already killed himself, they probably would have taken him down. Plus, none of us knows whether the shooter only killed himself because they had arrived and were surrounding him. We also don't know if there are some people alive today because of the quick response of these LEOs and their medical training.

    None of us knows everything that really happened there on the scene, we only know what little the media has told us. Which I'm sure that most of us would agree is never the whole story.

    And as far as receiving accolades for "doing their job", think about this. The FDNY was only doing their job when they ran into the twin towers. I don't think any of us would even think to say they don't deserve recognition.

    Did these LEOs have to die in the line of duty to be worthy of an award? </rant>

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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    I think they deserve an award (and btw. I think the Professor was recognized, just not in this particular award). The award is for "teamwork". Even after the shooter is dead, there are still lives to save. Getting help to the wounded fast and efficient is critical.

    Or see it this way: Do you rather want a police officer storming in and become another victim, or do you want them to spent a couple minutes thinking and at least provide effective first aid? The fault is with Cho. I don't remember the exact timeline, but I doubt they had a real chance to stop anything he was doing by rushing in.

    The officers did do good work given the constraints of the situation.

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    MY Brothers LEO 26 yrs after columbine THEY MADE IT POLICY TO CALL BACK UP & ENTER RIGHT THEN & ELIMINATE THE THREAT &POLICY IS ALWAYS WERE YOUR VEST NORTH/EAST FL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    Or see it this way: Do you rather want a police officer storming in and become another victim, or do you want them to spent a couple minutes thinking and at least provide effective first aid?
    I did not wanted to get involved in this thread but I must answer this: If I am looking at the end of the barrel and the guy is about to pull the trigger, I want the darn cop to come crashing in ASAP. Too selfish? Try your son or daughter in the same situation.

    From what I read in other boards, magazines and heard LEOs talk, the new policy for active shooter is to go in ASAP but transition into it is slow and painful as with all LEO stuff when Managers and Higher ups are involved.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    In my opinion ANYONE who volunteers to put themselves in harms way to hopefully make the lives of others safe (police, fire/EMT, military, teachers) should get an award and a raise.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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