Do you fear law enforcement officers? - Page 2

Do you fear law enforcement officers?

This is a discussion on Do you fear law enforcement officers? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard There are just few enough lunatics among the CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS that I can not say I'm completely comfortable or ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are just few enough lunatics among the CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS that I can not say I'm completely comfortable or unafraid.

    My gut reaction is that until I've had a moment to judge the interaction, I am on-guard that the CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDER is not one of the good guys. I wish I didn't feel this way, but I do.

    Obviously, the word substitution is mine. That being said, with my little change, is it still a reasonable and acceptable assumption to make? When I interact with somebody who is a CCW permit holder, I automatically give them the benefit of the doubt as to basic character and intent. I do the same with LEO's.
    Gonzo
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Fear them? No.

    Distrust them? Absolutely!

    Most LEO have issues with people because of their outlook on life. What other job do you know of where the employees have to ACTIVELY look for the bad things about you? Where they have to ACTIVELY distrust everything and everyone?

    This takes a person with a certain mental mindset and very few qualify. What is bad is the fact that this particular mindset isn't healthy. It leads to high rates of paranoia and suicide among those who are disposed this way. It also encompasses higher divorce rates, illicit drug usage, and mental health issues.

    I keep wondering why we let people with all these problems carry a gun and give their word greater weight than that of ordinary citizens. If it weren't for the badge and oath, these people would be classed as "nut jobs" by most.

    I do not trust that sort of person but I do not fear them.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    As for demeanor, spend a few years in the Marine Corps, you get use to it.
    Already been there--thanks.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post

    Distrust them? Absolutely!
    ...SNIP...

    ...This takes a person with a certain mental mindset and very few qualify. ....

    ...SNIP...
    I keep wondering why we let people with all these problems carry a gun and give their word greater weight than that of ordinary citizens.

    ...SNIP...

    these people would be classed as "nut jobs" by most.

    I do not trust that sort of person but I do not fear them.
    Most normal people feel the exact same way about attorneys.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    I believe if you're law abiding there's no need to fear law enforcement. While they make the occasional mistake, innocent people rarely go to prison.
    Member NRA, SAF and Georgiacarry.org
    “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Deep inside I know they are people just like us and there to serve and protect the law abiding citizen.
    I tend to disagree with this assertion. To serve and protect? I believe that they are there to observe, be suspcious of, and catch you doing something wrong. They are not, according to what I've read here, responsible for our protection. They certainly don't "serve" anyone I know.

    What they do, is try to catch people doing something wrong. In order to do so, they must be suspicious of nearly everyone, observing all the time. Yes, there is something fearful about someone with questionable motives or unknown mental ability carrying a gun, with absolute authority, observing me suspiciously in hopes of catching me doing something wrong.

    Once not to long ago I was stopped for speeding. This happened on an unlit stretch of the I-15 that is only two-lanes with a narrow shoulder, and loads of heavy 18-wheeled traffic on their way to CA. I pulled off at the first off-ramp which took probably 20 seconds. I was pulled from my car in front of my wife AT gunpoint, for no apparent reason. My car was illegaly searched and seized. My wife and I were on our way to work in the morning.

    We missed work and this whole thing cost us about $1500 in salary and impound fees. Why? The cop was having a bad day or something. I called his Sgt. as soon as I got home, and we had a short discussion, the results of which were the tropper returning my plates to me at my home, all holds being released on my vehicle at impound, and the reckless driving/expired registration citation going into the round file.

    I did nothing wrong, was polite and respectful, yet this gun-wielding cop with an attitude took it upon himself to threaten my life and interfere with my daily commerce through no fault of my own. Was I driving reclessly? hardly... I was sipping a cup of coffee while my wife put eye-liner on in the vanity mirror.

    It is experiences like this that create a certain feeling towards LE. I have a squeeky-clean record. I respect those in uniform. I am polite and friendly to everyone I meet. However, LE has the ability to ruin my day in a major way, just because they didn't eat breakfast. Do I fear that? Absolutely.

    BTW, my registration was not expired, and I was not driving recklessly.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    I have met a few jerks in my day, but I respect them more than I fear them.
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

    Just call me a pessimistic optimist !

    U.S. Navy vet 1981-1992

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    I believe that they are there to observe, be suspcious of, and catch you doing something wrong. They are not, according to what I've read here, responsible for our protection. They certainly don't "serve" anyone I know.
    So, when a State Trooper resonds to a vehicle accident, pulls a severely injured child from a burning wreck, and proceeds to perform CPR...exactly what are they doing? Not serving and protecting? Who exactly would they be trying to catch doing something wrong in that circumstance? Or the Police Officers in in MO right now who are wading into raging flood waters to pull out victims? Do you figure that they thought the vicitims must have looked "suspicious" and were trying to "catch" them illegally attempting to breath underwater? How about the NYPD Officers who rushed ino the WTC before it collapsed? Do you think their intent was to try and catch the hijackers who might have survivied the crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    Yes, there is something fearful about someone with questionable motives or unknown mental ability carrying a gun, with absolute authority, observing me suspiciously in hopes of catching me doing something wrong.

    And yet, we, the LEO's, are the ones who always get blamed for the "us vs. them" attitude! But what have I read here today? I have "questionable motives and ukknown mental ability". If I did not swear and oath and carry a badge I would be a "nutcase". I'm "paranoid" and distrustful of everyone. My "mindset isn't healthy". This is what I have learned about myself from this thread. But I am the one who breeds the "us vs. them" attitude?

    Am I cautious and watchful of people I don't know? Certainly. But no more so than anyone with a proper survival mindset. Do I love to catch bad guys? You bet! Do I consider that "serving and protecting" the community? Absolutely I do! Is it the only way I "serve and protect"? Of course not. In 18 years of law enforcement I have assisted in numerous rescues of persons in distress; rendered medical aid more times than I could count; responded to vehicle and household accidents; provided aid and comfort to victims of crimes; provided physical security to those who were not capable, for various reaons, of doing it themselves. And I'm not just talking about me here...I'm talking about LEO's in general. But I must assume that none of that counts. After all, I'm really just a mentally unstable person hoping to catch law abiding citizens doing something wrong so I can throw them in jail.

    My Mom is a retired nurse and I'll never forget her telling me a story. A city PD officer responded to a call of a woman threatening to commit suicide. When he responded to the apartment, he found her in the kitchen holding a steak knife. He was able to talk her into dropping it and he transported her to the hospital for treatment. (Gee, he must have forgotten to arrest her for the knife, huh?) She had a small (toddler size) child with her in the apartment. When the police got hold of someone regarding the child, they were told it would be a couple of hours until a family member could get there to pick up the child. Instead of turning the child over to Family Protective Services, my Mom watched as the Police Officer spent over 2 hours of his day sitting with the child, playing with him, entertaining him, and taking care of him until a relative got there to pick him up. (Gee, I guess the nutjob, unstable, bully cop must have been waiting for the kid to do something suspicious so he could slam the cuffs on him and toss him in juvie). I remember my Mom saying, "Gosh, funny how nobody from the local TV station is here to do a story on THIS Police Officer's actions. But if the same Officer yelled at someone on a traffic stop, he would be plastered all over the 6:00 News.". Now I don't know that Officer, but I feel pretty confident in saying this: He wasn't doing it for the money. He certainly wasn't doing it for the glamor. He wasn't doing it because he had to. He was not doing it because he was on a power trip or he was a bully. He was doing it because he believed it was his job to help that kid. Some nut he must have been.
    Gonzo
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  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    I can count a few LEO's among some of my best friends. One I've known since I was in 5th grade. Others? Found out they were officers after the fact. Doesn't really make a difference to me. What really makes all the difference to me with this line of thought is that at the end of the day, they just want to go home too. Most of their run-ins are with the less desirable members of society or with angry drivers. Can anyone blame a LEO if you get caught with one who's had a bad day?

    Personally, I just try to give 'em a smile and give the respect I would want in their position. Most of the run-ins I've had have been due to my own fault. Speeding, accidentally expired registration... Its all stuff I should have done/not done/taken care of. The officer is just doing his job.

    They go way beyond the call of duty all the time and almost never get the recognition they deserve. It seems that all too often an officer only gets his name in the paper when he's stepped in some really deep brown stuff. Personally, I'd rather give them a pat on the back and buy them a beer than worry about saying something wrong. If that's the biggest concern, then exercise common sense and don't tell your buddy cop that you set a land-speed record between two locations. Personally, I'd rather have them around. If that means taking the bad with the good, then so be it. I'm sure one day I'll have a run-in with an officer that won't go over so well. But hey... It beats the heck out of not having them around.
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  10. #25
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    Do you fear law enforcement officers?

    "no"

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickdiver View Post
    Yep- I've heard that one.

    Sorry- I'm not going to disavow friends and near-family because they happen to be LEOs. I pick my friends carefully- and I'll trust any one of them before I trust pretty much any attorney.

    I commend you for standing up for your friends. I have cop friends as well and again they are still my friends and I trust them at the friend level. However, if its my skin thats in question, I'm going to not talk to anybody but my attorney (who is really the only person) I can confide in without having it come back to bite me.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  12. #27
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Gonzo, I think you need to take a deep breath. I didn't come here to argue with you, I posted to answer the original poster's inquiry.

    Clearly, not all LEO are created equal. Not all of them are having a bad day all the time, and they are all human so of course they would have some endearing human qualities.

    There are many people who rush out to help others, and they are not all LE. This is something inherent in being human, not necessarily a quality that is reserved for LEOs.

    When I say "questionable motives and unknown mental ability," I mean just that; that is an unknown. I never said you or any other LEO is unstable or on a power trip. However, the reality is that some are. Because of that, and the fact that I don't know the cop in that cruiser over there giving me a once-over, I am uncomfortable.


    These are my personal feelings. I actually have feelings, you know, like ones I can't really control based on personal experience. Preaching to me on a thread about how many LEO's are great people will not change the feelings that occur inside of me when I'm near a cop.

    If you want to help foster a better attitude towards police, I don't think being so defensive is going to get it done. It's up to each individual officer to try their best to keep a level head (as we ALL must do) when dealing with people. I find it hard to believe that most LE do not have a superiority complex, after all you are TRAINED to dominate. It is to be expected, and that is part of the job.

    My feelings aren't going to change as long as there are bad people out there that become cops, or cops that have bad days and take their authority to the extreme. Yours is a job with the highest level of responsibility. I'm sure that makes it impossible for all in that position to remain calm and professional at all times.

    This will never change.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    I Myself Do Not Fear Any Leo I Know Many Just A Job After 20+ Years Respect Them Hard Job Sometimes

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Nope.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    There are many people who rush out to help others, and they are not all LE. This is something inherent in being human, not necessarily a quality that is reserved for LEOs.
    I agree 100%. It is no more fair to paint LEO's with a broad brush then it is to paint any citizen with that same brush. Just like we, as LEO's, should judge citizens individually, citizens should do the same for LEO's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    When I say "questionable motives and unknown mental ability," I mean just that; that is an unknown. I never said you or any other LEO is unstable or on a power trip. However, the reality is that some are. Because of that, and the fact that I don't know the cop in that cruiser over there giving me a once-over, I am uncomfortable..
    Would it not be fair to same the exact same thing about any citizen? Any CCW permit holder? Some are unstable. Some are on power trips. Every person I encounter on the job has "questionable motives and unknown mental ability". True? So, how should I treat them? How should I view them? The same way you see LEO's...with discomfort and distrust?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    Preaching to me on a thread about how many LEO's are great people will not change the feelings that occur inside of me when I'm near a cop.
    My intent is not to preach, simply to respond to what I felt was a "broad brush" attitude about LEO's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalCompact View Post
    If you want to help foster a better attitude towards police, I don't think being so defensive is going to get it done.
    I would simply counter that by saying, if you want LEO's to have a better attitude, statements such as "They certainly don't serve anyone I know." is not going to get it done.

    No argument intended. Just stating my opinions based on my feelings, same as you. Truly no disrespect intended.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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