Do you fear law enforcement officers?

This is a discussion on Do you fear law enforcement officers? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo I agree 100%. It is no more fair to paint LEO's with a broad brush then it is to paint any ...

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Thread: Do you fear law enforcement officers?

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    I agree 100%. It is no more fair to paint LEO's with a broad brush then it is to paint any citizen with that same brush. Just like we, as LEO's, should judge citizens individually, citizens should do the same for LEO's.
    I agree. The question was not whether or not we feared an individual officer. The question was if we feared "the police." I have met many very cool officers, including the one in NY that cracked my back and gave me a shoulder rub in the parking lot of a 7-11 after finding I had been on a long drive. I don't have a problem with an individual unless they present one, like the guy who impounded my car did. It is people like him though, that make me "fear the police" in general.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    Would it not be fair to same the exact same thing about any citizen? Any CCW permit holder? Some are unstable. Some are on power trips. Every person I encounter on the job has "questionable motives and unknown mental ability". True? So, how should I treat them? How should I view them? The same way you see LEO's...with discomfort and distrust?
    It would be ABSOLUTELY fair. I expect that most officers, when conducting a traffic stop or responding to a call, approach with extreme caution. I would expect no less. This is part of what makes me fear "the police." After all, since obtaining my CFP and carrying a gun around with me everywhere, I've begun to adapt that "warrior mindset," having the plan to "kill everyone I meet." Not that I plan to kill people, just that I've done a lot of reading and it certainly changes how you view people.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    My intent is not to preach, simply to respond to what I felt was a "broad brush" attitude about LEO's.
    I understand, and I respect your POV. I must remind you that this is not an "attitude" so much as it is an attempt to explain the uncontrollable feelings that arise within me when I see a cruiser behind me, or off to the side looking at me, etc... I have invested nearly $1000 in V1 radar detectors to help prevent "detentions."



    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    I would simply counter that by saying, if you want LEO's to have a better attitude, statements such as "They certainly don't serve anyone I know." is not going to get it done.
    Touche. However, I do not attempt to fool myself into believing that LEO's will have a better attitude in general. Those that already have the good attitude will remain so. Those that have bad attitudes going into it, will retain them. Those that get shot at will forever be more careful in their actions when dealing with a potential threat. It is just the way it is, I don't expect to change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    No argument intended. Just stating my opinions based on my feelings, same as you. Truly no disrespect intended.
    Gonzo
    Nor I :D

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  3. #62
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    I know its a bit corny, and I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy, but I fear no man. There is no reason to.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Do I fear the cops, no..........and yes

    I personnaly know too many of 'em and have grown up to realize I'm not breaking any laws or doing anything (I think) to raise suspecion. Besides, those guys and gals are kinda fun and entertaining to hang out with.

    Having said that, I've been pulled over many, many times in the past (none in the last 7 or 8 years though). I've never gotten a ticket but every time I've seen those flashing blue and red lights in my rearview I get that 'flushed', "oh crap" feeling and (probley more nervous than outright fear) start wondering 'what I was doing to get this kind of attention'?........checking my speed, did I miss a light, stop sign(?), or something like that. 90% of thier job is 'saving' the dufus'es of our population from themselves and keeping thier (the dufus'es) crainums outta thier rectal area anyway.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  5. #64
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    No fear of LEO's, no. I have a healthy respect for how tough the job is that they've signed on for, and I maintain my judgment and critical view of situations and people as normal.

    Though, that said, some humans will be just that: human. That means, with reasonable frequency, you'll find malfeasance, lying, outright abuses directed at others. Same as with any other group of people. Of course, with the force of the law and badge of authority behind it, when an LEO goes sideways, it can be truly ugly for those involved.

    In the past 14yrs of carrying and nearly 30yrs of managing my own security/safety, I have yet to see a single abusive LEO who misused his/her power or authority. Except for one, which occurred to a close friend of my family.

    The only exception was the gang with badges who responded to the home of a friend of the family while he was cleaning his rifle in his living room, then proceeded to shoot him dead. All the while, his wife was in the next room chatting away with him. There was no threat. There was no warning to him of the assault on him, no verbal commands to cease whatever it was they thought was a problem. Bang ... dead, by multiple shots, right there on his living room floor. Then, there was the cover-up, including the death threats some of his family members received when attempting to track down the killers. The blue line was thick and insurmountable, in that situation. The family backed off and buried it, and him. To this day, that's the bad/abusive only situation I'm aware of with my family or close friends.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02PSD4ME View Post
    No I do not fear them, But I do not trust them.
    +1. Obviously my opinions are only based on my experiences with cops, around where I live. I can't speak for anywhere else.

    While I've never had a bad experience with an LEO around here legally, I have come to the conclusion that some of them in my town are not the kind of people I want "protecting and serving" me or mine, nor are they the kind of people I want recieving my tax money (I could say that about a lot of people though). Some of them are guys I went to school with, or worked with before they became cops. A lot of them were morons and jack arses in high school. Many of the police here don't even look old enough to be graduated from high school.

    I think the town I grew up in has had it's run with several crooked cops as well. Recently, a "school resource officer," (a cop assigned to the high school and middle school in town) was convicted of statuatory rape and possessing child pornography. A few years ago a couple of street cops planted evidence when searching a guys car they suspected of dealing drugs. Turns out that guy happened to be on the narcotics street team. Oops. Speaking of the narc street team, they don't have a great reputation either. I've been told by several people (that don't know each other) that one of them sells scrip drugs. They also have a habit of encouraging non-violent misdemeanor drug offenders to wear a wire into the worst parts of town to try to buy crack in order to lighten their punishment. I don't condone illegal drug use but that seems a little moronic to me.

    The sad thing is, I think a lot of us, including myself at one time, would like to believe that the only folks who become cops are people who genuinely want to make a difference and make the place we live better and safer. But that just ain't true. The same could be said of politicians. The fact is, they're just people working for a paycheck like me. There will be good ones and bad ones. I don't have a problem with cops in general, but I do have problems with some of the people (where I live) that just happen to be cops. Don't mind them, don't trust them. I do applaud all of our good LEOs though for doing a tough and under appreciated job that requires them to deal with the most ignorant of our population on a daily basis. Lord knows I wouldn't have the patience.
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I know its a bit corny, and I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy, but I fear no man. There is no reason to.
    ...but I bet you 'fear' one woman...
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  8. #67
    Ex Member Array echobaby's Avatar
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    It's more of a TRUST issue than a FEAR issue.

  9. #68
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    i don't exactly fear the police, but i certainly do feel uneasy around them, and find it hard to trust anyone in a uniform. i grew up in NYC, in a pretty crime ridden neighborhood, and the only time the police ever showed up was to shake down local dealers, or harrass/beat people who they didn't like the look of. this isn't an exaggeration; i've been victimized myself by the NYPD. the police where i live now have earned my respect. i've had a few encounters, and nearly every time, they've been nothing but respectful and courteous. i've even befriended a few. but do i still comfortable around police? sadly, no.

  10. #69
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    A special situation; NYC

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    i don't exactly fear the police, but i certainly do feel uneasy around them, and find it hard to trust anyone in a uniform. i grew up in NYC, in a pretty crime ridden neighborhood, and the only time the police ever showed up was to shake down local dealers, or harrass/beat people who they didn't like the look of. this isn't an exaggeration; i've been victimized myself by the NYPD. the police where i live now have earned my respect. i've had a few encounters, and nearly every time, they've been nothing but respectful and courteous. i've even befriended a few. but do i still comfortable around police? sadly, no.
    In my opening post in this thread I mentioned two incidents with NYC police/ both occurred a couple of decades or more apart in time.

    I do not know what time frame you are speaking of with the incidents above.

    I certainly do not wish the smear the entire NYC force. However, having lived the first 24 years of my life there, and returned a number of times thereafter, I can comfortably say for myself that something is wrong systemically.

    I'll cite two incidents in which I was only a quick observer and got out of the way; add these to the two I mentioned.

    1) I think it was in the subway on 59th St. A large group 6 or 8 officers had cornered a man. I have no idea what he might have done. They were beating the crap out of him, and a couple looked at me like they planned to add me to the party merely for having walked by at the wrong time --and witnessed what they were doing. Of course I got out of there quickly.

    2) A minor incident. One man using poor judgment. I was riding the subway from Brooklyn to the Bronx very late at night; lets say around midnight. A man (probably drunk--certainly not well dressed) had fallen asleep in the opposite aisle. He was doing nothing except perhaps sleeping in the subway-loitering. A transit cop walked up to him, and uncertain if the man was asleep or passed out tested the hypothesis that he was unconscious by whacking the guy hard across his shins with his night-stick.

    I must say, I have lived in many places besides NYC, and I think there is something in the psyche there. I gather from news reports the same phenomenon probably occurs in Chicago, maybe LA too.

    Last year there were a couple of really bad incidents reported in Chicago.

    It is easy for the cops who participate here to shrug these off as isolated incidents. I don't thinks so. I think they are they tip of an iceberg in some communities. In others, everyone is squeaky clean and a boys scout. I think I live in one such now.

    The problem, one never knows when one will have a run in with the wrong individual, as one of our posters described in Arkansas, or the situation I mentioned earlier in this thread where my wife and I were merely walking down a street and minding our own business.

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Yes, I fear Law Enforcement officers. Why? Because they are the only people who have the legal authority to disarm me before I know of their true intentions.

    Just the possibility of somebody disarming me and possibily being either corrupt or a BG pretending to be a Police Officer is frightening in its implications. With one of the highest suicide rates of any profession, how do I know if that might just be his day.

    I also believe I can win a self defense case in which I was justified with just about anybody. Now if I had to defend myself against a LEO, I believe a Not Guilty verdict would be much harder to achieve.

    So, yes, I fear anybody who can legally disarm me anytime he wants, for any reason, or no reason at all. After all, "For officer safety." covers any situation an officer wants it to.
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  12. #71
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Do you fear law enforcement officers?
    Only when I'm breaking the law.
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  13. #72
    Member Array CCWINNC's Avatar
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    Yes.....for these reasons

    1. Always looking for the bad in people.
    2. Serious GOD complex
    3. Don't always follow the laws they enforce. (speeding cops in a hurry to get to lunch or home) be honest we have all seen it.
    4. see below links

    YouTube - Cop Shoots himself in the leg
    YouTube - A Lady Cop Accidentally Pulled the Trigger!
    YouTube - Police miss robbers



    Need I say more
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  14. #73
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JD
    Well...

    I'm not a fireman or LEO, but my dad was CFR in the Air Force, and became a LEO once he got out, and my half brother is a pretty senior member of one of the local FDs back home.

    This is one my my favorite anecdote conversations I had with my father.

    My dad came home from a bad day at work, I could tell he was tired, ticked off, and just generally upset. I asked him what was wrong, and this was the reply I got.


    Quote:
    "I should have been a fireman, EVERYONE loves to see the firemen, they're saving your home, saving your life, taking cats out of trees. When people see that big red truck coming, it's "THANK GOD, IT'S THE FIRE DEPT!"

    No one likes to see the police, you got robbed, beat up, your kid's in trouble, or you're going to jail. You get drunks in puking in the squad car, you got irate parents, people that aren't even doing anything wrong will say "Watch out man, IT'S THE COPS!"

    Don't be a Police officer."


    I didn't do either, I still work with both LEO and Fire, and quite personally, wouldn't want to be either one.

    Hat's off to you gents.
    I've heard the same story, LOL. I work as a LEO and I still get the shaky feeling if I get pulled over. I think the main reason LEO's get jaded, judgemental, etc, is that we see and deal with the worst issues/people of society. It makes it hard to be friendly with everyone after you just dealt with a person who attempted to kill someone by beating them with a hammer or someone who did kill someone by beating them with a hammer. Just my experience.
    Last edited by JD; June 19th, 2008 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Removed language work around.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  15. #74
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    No. I am a good guy.

    Edited to add:

    Not since I grew up, anyway. Most time I've ever spent with "LEO's" was with IRS Special Agents (the Tax Guys with Guns) on behalf of a bad client I got stuck with. Not very talkative, very professional. I was very alert during the Q&A sessions.
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  16. #75
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    I think 'fear' is the wrong word. Some apprehensive, driven by the media and horror stories. But I also think the LEOs of the world do not get enough credit for the job they do and commitment they make.

    Rick

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