Thoughts on Guard Policing CONUS cities?

Thoughts on Guard Policing CONUS cities?

This is a discussion on Thoughts on Guard Policing CONUS cities? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Please don't miscronstrue my post or take this to mean I'm against the military or something because I'm definitely not and I thank everyone who ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Guard Policing CONUS cities?

    Please don't miscronstrue my post or take this to mean I'm against the military or something because I'm definitely not and I thank everyone who serves, but am I the only one that sees something wrong with this:

    Gov. To Extend National Guard Stay In New Orleans - New Orleans News Story - WDSU New Orleans

    "I think it's a good part to fight crime," he said. "I think it's great the governor is partnering with the city of New Orleans as we try to combat crime."

    One criminal court judge said the police department can't handle patrolling on its own.

    "It's necessary," Judge Arthur Hunter said. "The city doesn't have enough police in the district to do patrolling."

    The National Guard has been in the city since a crime outbreak in June 2006. It costs the state about $3 million per month to keep the Guard in New Orleans.

    I could be wrong, but why exactly are we burning our extremely valuable military resources on POLICING New Orleans?
    If their police department can't handle their job(in their own words!), perhaps some heads should start rolling and a re-org take place?

    Man, talk about burning money and wasting resources.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I can, in a small way, see the problem with misspent resources.
    I can, in a very large way, see the problem and precedent with using the military to police our cities.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

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  3. #3
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    I don't want NOPD Policing New Orleans

    Shielded from Justice: New Orleans

    The New Orleans Police Department has been rocked by successive scandals during the past several years: an officer was convicted in April 1996 of hiring a hit man to kill a woman who had lodged a brutality complaint against him and another officer was convicted in September 1995 for robbing a Vietnamese restaurant and shooting, execution style, a brother and sister who worked there, as well as an off-duty officer from her precinct working as security at the restaurant. In addition, at least fifty of the 1,400-member force have been arrested for felonies including homicide, rape, and robberies since 1993.1 As astutely noted by police abuse expert Prof. James Fyfe, some cities' police departments have reputations for being brutal, like Los Angeles, or corrupt, like New York, and still others are considered incompetent. New Orleans has accomplished the rare feat of leading nationally in all categories.2

    The U.S. Justice Department, hardly an overeager interloper, has been so alarmed by the corruption that it has assigned two FBI agents to work at the department to help reform its internal affairs division, while the Justice Department's civil rights division is conducting an investigation under its new civil powers, allowing the Justice Department to bring civil actions against cities and their police departments if they engage in a "pattern or practice" of rights violations.3 New Orleans also had the highest ranking of citizen complaints of police brutality in the country, according to a 1991 Justice Department report.4 Yet, despite its abysmal record, the police department has avoided the widespread community protests or other sustained external pressure that are often necessary for reforms to take hold permanently.

    Beginning in early 1997, the city began implementing "quality of life" policing tactics, as implemented in New York City and elsewhere around the country, byfocusing on more minor offenses.5 During 1995 and 1996, the crime rate began to drop in some categories, and this drop continued in 1997, with murder and armed robbery rates dropping dramatically. Police abuse experts in the city, however, are concerned that implementation of the "quality of life" plan will result in complaints of harassment and an increase in abuse complaints, as it has in other cities where it has taken effect; there is particular uneasiness about instituting "aggressive policing" by a police force like New Orleans' with its brutal track record. Indeed, police abuse experts in the city noted an increase in complaints during the summer of 1997, following the implementation of the new zero-tolerance program.6 According to the department's own statistics, citizen complaints against the police rose by 27 percent between 1996 and 1997.7
    Plus the Gun Confiscation after Katrina

    But they could have changed
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  4. #4
    Member Array Spenser's Avatar
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    3 million a month huh? I'm sure they have the best of intentions but it doesn't sound like they're doing much to correct the problem of insufficient LEO numbers.

    Kind of makes me think of a U.S. where every major city where a crime rate reaches a certain point they send in the Guard. But I'm usually pretty pessimistic.
    Better to die quick, fighting on your feet;
    Than to live forever, begging on your knees.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    People tend to think that just because they wear a uniform and carry weapons, that they can function in the same role as LE. That's not so. With few exceptions, the military is neither trained, nor properly equipped for police work.

  6. #6
    Member Array Spenser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    People tend to think that just because they wear a uniform and carry weapons, that they can function in the same role as LE. That's not so. With few exceptions, the military is neither trained, nor properly equipped for police work.
    You're probably correct. So what in the hell are they doing there?
    Better to die quick, fighting on your feet;
    Than to live forever, begging on your knees.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I don't want NOPD Policing New Orleans

    Shielded from Justice: New Orleans



    Plus the Gun Confiscation after Katrina

    But they could have changed
    That being the case, refer to my original post:
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    yada yada yada.....

    If their police department can't handle their job(in their own words!), perhaps some heads should start rolling and a re-org take place?

    Man, talk about burning money and wasting resources.
    The solution to a poor excuse for a police department, isn't bringing in the military to police the city for 2+years(and potentially forever at the rate we're going). Cut the obviously bad management, cut the folks not performing their duties correctly, cut the fat, and oh hell cut the whole department. Bring in someone qualified from outside and give them quasi-free reign to build a proper department as they see fit with the understanding that if they screw up, they're gone; no second or third strikes. Run it like a business.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Roll the Guard out and let Sheriff Joe Arpaio roll on in there. He'll have it cleaned up in no time at all and save money while doing it too.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    http://www.shieldsd.net

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    In part, they have brought it on themselves, how many times are they going to reelect Nagen, and the Police Chief, Maybe he needs to get back on the phone and "curse out the President" again.

    I didn't vote to have that city rebuilt with my federal tax dollars anyway, move it up stream to higher ground and build a channel if water access is so critical. would that have cost much more than was spent to rebuild, which isn't over apparently.

    Definition of insanity, keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. Let them keep reelecting the same people, and keep expecting a new outcome.

    Sorry,
    I've had my fill of that city in the news.
    rant off.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    NOLA and NOLAPD are not a total loss. They can always be used as a prime example of a bad example.
    One should never confuse good fortune with good training.
    Illegitimus Non Carborundum.
    In God we trust.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Chief View Post
    NOLA and NOLAPD are not a total loss. They can always be used as a prime example of a bad example.
    Ah...like the drunk driving videos some traffic schools show...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #12
    Member Array The Quiet Man's Avatar
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    National Guard in CONUS Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    People tend to think that just because they wear a uniform and carry weapons, that they can function in the same role as LE. That's not so. With few exceptions, the military is neither trained, nor properly equipped for police work.

    I agree that the National Guard should not be used for "supplemental police work" except in times of true emergency and then only judiciously. I spent nearly twelve years between active duty and national guard time. In my opinion, both organizations were professional, well trained and equipped to accomplish their mission. But other than some rudimentary riot control training while in the national guard, we had no law enforcement training. Our focus was purely military and that meant killing (or training to kill) as many enemy combatants in the most timely and violent fashion available. While that comment may be somewhat harsh and easy to take out of context, that's what it amounted to - and properly so. Perhaps military training doctrine has changed over the years, but it still occurs to me that military forces should be used for military purposes outside the United States. I even have a problem with "peacekeeping missions" outside the US, but that's another issue.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I'm wondering where the NOPD does there recruiting and job fairs at ?The local parole office,They must have some of the lowest standards for hire anywhere in the country
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  14. #14
    Member Array charmincarmens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    People tend to think that just because they wear a uniform and carry weapons, that they can function in the same role as LE. That's not so. With few exceptions, the military is neither trained, nor properly equipped for police work.
    You are correct. But, they can kick your ass if you get out of line.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    People tend to think that just because they wear a uniform and carry weapons, that they can function in the same role as LE. That's not so. With few exceptions, the military is neither trained, nor properly equipped for police work.
    Actually if they are MP's or equivalent they do have police training,Alot of MP training follows civilian LEO training guidelines.Usually when the national guard is called into enforcing the law it's due to a natural disaster or if "Martial Law" has been declared
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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