Common Ground: RKBA (and nothing else)

Common Ground: RKBA (and nothing else)

This is a discussion on Common Ground: RKBA (and nothing else) within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A few disclaimers: -I think this is the safest place to post this. -This is NOT meant to be an invitation to debate specifics of ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    Common Ground: RKBA (and nothing else)

    A few disclaimers:
    -I think this is the safest place to post this.
    -This is NOT meant to be an invitation to debate specifics of politics or religion. Please do NOT do so. The fact that I have to write this does, of course, mean that this thread could go down that path and be very quickly closed. But I do not think it has to or should go that way, so let's try to avoid that. Please?
    -I'm fairly new to carrying concealed and fairly new to Defensive Carry. Both are about six-months old now. I recognize my place in that, so I hope this doesn't come across as a lecture from a seasoned poster. It's not. It is an observation from a young person and a relative newbie to the forum. Take it how you will.

    I like DefensiveCarry for a few reasons:
    -It's very informative, and the posters are incredibly helpful. I bought my holster (MTAC) because of you guys. I bought my ammo (Federal HST) because of you guys. I will shortly buy a knife (Ka-Bar TDI) because of you guys.
    -It's not terribly combative because of tight moderating, and there is a lot of grace for ignorance. As one who has spent some time on out-of-control forums, this is very nice.
    -There's little machismo or compensation going on here; watching the Nightline story on Wednesday night made me realize how important that sort of understated dignity is to our image (props to the VCDL).

    DefensiveCarry is a place where we rally around the second amendment and RKBA. I have found in my limited time that, in reality, that is the only thing we can ALL rally around.

    I know from my observations that we have:
    -Neo-cons
    -Paleo-cons
    -Crunchy cons
    -Reactionaries
    -Libertarians (I accidentally spelled this "Librarians" for a second, hah)
    -Classical liberals
    -Anarcho-capitalists (I'm pretty sure I picked that up in one post)
    -Progressives
    -New Left liberals
    -Keynesians
    etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum

    This is not a bad thing. One slightly disarming thing that I've noticed is the assumption by some posters that, to be a true defender of 2A, one must be a prototypical modern American conservative. Once it was implied that anyone who deviates from the standard line must be some sort of liberal imposter, posing as a gun owner and 2A defender. This is silly. I am pretty close to a typical conservative here: a paleo-con or sorts with some reactionary tendencies and classical liberal sympathies. Still, I don't think that somebody who may appear liberal in one area or another must necessarily be a phony when it comes to guns, and I am made uneasy when we appear to reject potential supporters of the second amendment because they fail to agree on things that have nothing to with the second amendment.

    We should rally around the 2A Let's continue to support the right to keep and bear arms and embrace the support of all those who do the same.

    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Crunchy-cons? Who on earth could that be??
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  3. #3
    New Member Array toddorts's Avatar
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    Good post. As a newbie, I've definitely noticed that this forum leans heavily neo-con, but that's to be expected from any gun forum. I'm not registered to any political party, but I generally vote Democrat. Yes, probably heresy to many of you, but there are some pro-gun people that vote Dem. :) I'm what has become a rarity in America: a social conservative, but liberal on economic and labor issues.

    Try not to flame me too bad. ;)

  4. #4
    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    I should admit I also have some crunchy-con sympathies.
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams

  5. #5
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    One slightly disarming thing that I've noticed is the assumption by some posters that, to be a true defender of 2A, one must be a prototypical modern American conservative.
    Fact...
    there are some affiliations that one might claim to be that simply are not compatible with being a "true defender" of the Second Amendment.

    Fact..
    not often on this forum, but occasionally, posters from other forums such as the Democratic Underground,(just one example) will post inflammatory comments that intend to invoke the wrath of the readers, just to sit back, be amused at the reactions, and talk it about on their other forum.Usually, no good comes out of that. nothing is gained by it.
    those that claim to do so, are ether ignorant of the issues that they claim to be a party of, or ignorant of the issues of the Second Amendment.

    Fact...
    the moderators of this forum do an excellent job of cutting through the BS, making this one of the least BS forums that I have seen.

    Fact...
    There are several members here that I have personally had some "lively" discussions with. Their opinions are different than mine. That is just the way it is. I realize that their culture, upbringing,laws and insights are different than mine and I can respect that. Occasionally I'm prompted to think about an issue that I never gave thought to. Every now and then I actually learn something, or perhaps see things from a different angle. That is one of the reasons that I frequent this forum.

    Fact...
    people from various backgrounds, levels of experience and some from different countries that don't enjoy the rights that we do come here to gather and swap ideas and conversation. This is an excellent place to learn, I personally have recommended it to many new shooters.

    One thing that I did learn as child that has proven to bear out in all other things through life...and that is Respect.

    My Dad taught me that if you don't learn anything but RESPECT, that everything else will pretty much take care of itself. Think about it. What do thieves, murderers and some politicians have in common? They have NO respect for anything or anyone and it shows every-time they speak.

    I don't think being of different opinion will get you banned here. What I have seen get you banned quicker than anything is lack of respect. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes it is very hard to show respect sometimes and I think the Mods do an excellent job or reminding us and "throttling "us back when we need it. I know that I have been guilty of saying too much when something hit me wrong or touched a nerve.

    I know that it can be a tight rope act for a mod to know when to intervene and when not to but doing it is what makes this forum one of the best.Sometimes it takes awhile to see the true intent of a poster, but the more they post, the more obvious it becomes.

    Crunchy-con?
    Personally, I like a bowl of Captain Crunch in the morning...you know, the ones with the "berries" in them.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Well said. We're far more alike than different. It just takes a bit of introspection and open-mindedness to see it.

    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #7
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    Okay, I admit it...I still don't know...what in the world is a "crunchy-con?"
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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  8. #8
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1 View Post
    Okay, I admit it...I still don't know...what in the world is a "crunchy-con?"

    Gotta' love Wikipedia.
    In 2002, Dreher wrote an essay in National Review that explored a sub-category of American conservatism he defined as "granola conservatism," and whose adherents he described as "crunchy cons." He defined these individuals as traditional conservatives who believed in environmental conservation, frugal living, the preservation of traditional family values, in addition to expressing a skepticism of what they perceive to be some of the excesses of free market capitalism; they are also usually religious.

  9. #9
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    Thanks, JD.

    If it's Teddy Roosevelt's brand of environmental conservation, I guess I'm in (with classical Liberal and Libertarian leanings?).
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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  10. #10
    1943 - 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1 View Post
    Okay, I admit it...I still don't know...what in the world is a "crunchy-con?"
    Well, it ain't me!


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    I wish that up here in Canada and in the US, that gun control was not an issue, regardless of party. We had a lady up here who was very left-wing and pro-CCW, when she went public, the left turned on her like snarling dogs, I think it has shaken her beliefs, although I never got a chance to talk to her directly. I came from a leftwing household, but a trip to the USSR when I was young showed me that the concepts were flawed, along with the antics here, converted me to Canadian right wing, which is about centre for the US.

  12. #12
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    To me the fundamental difference between the two groups is open minds. We have it, they don't, allow me to explain.

    bulldog lists people within the "conservative" frame of mind thinking different things on different issues. But the main thing is that we respect their opinions and beliefs even if we don't share on the other's "ideology." We take the time to analyze and digest their views and, sometimes we even change our minds on one issue because we come to the decision that it is a better stance than our original. If we were of one mind and one dogma, we would not have animated discussions like 9mm v 45 or AK v AR or Leather v Plastic. We come to accept that there are differences and each of us is an individual with the God given freedom to be so. In essence we are a tree with many different branches but only one solid root system. We come together when somebody else decides our roots are wrong and must be destroyed because it does not conform to their political stance. Our biggest strenght and sometimes weakness is that we know that we can be wrong on something and willing to learn and adjust but without compromising our core beliefs.

    The other side believes itself to be perfect, unbiased and right. Since they are right because they are more "advanced" you must be wrong and therefore you must change your ways either by accepting unconditionally or by legislating your behavior. Sort of like the Borg's "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated." for the good of the collective. They will resort to any means (cheating, lying, etc.) because they are doing it for "your benefit" or the benefit of the majority and that makes it right.
    Any dissidence is severely punished and it is worse if you were one of the original True Believers. Now you have become a traitor and you should be punished alongside those stubborn individuals from the other side that refuse to be assimilated.

    The true difference is that we are truly open minded. The opposition is narrow minded, fanatical and could be deadly for your rights and your life.

    You wanna see a sample of their biggest Borgs? zombietime
    Warning, lots of pics are NSFW
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    To me the fundamental difference between the two groups is open minds. We have it, they don't, allow me to explain.

    bulldog lists people within the "conservative" frame of mind thinking different things on different issues. But the main thing is that we respect their opinions and beliefs even if we don't share on the other's "ideology." We take the time to analyze and digest their views and, sometimes we even change our minds on one issue because we come to the decision that it is a better stance than our original. If we were of one mind and one dogma, we would not have animated discussions like 9mm v 45 or AK v AR or Leather v Plastic. We come to accept that there are differences and each of us is an individual with the God given freedom to be so. In essence we are a tree with many different branches but only one solid root system. We come together when somebody else decides our roots are wrong and must be destroyed because it does not conform to their political stance. Our biggest strenght and sometimes weakness is that we know that we can be wrong on something and willing to learn and adjust but without compromising our core beliefs.

    The other side believes itself to be perfect, unbiased and right. Since they are right because they are more "advanced" you must be wrong and therefore you must change your ways either by accepting unconditionally or by legislating your behavior. Sort of like the Borg's "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated." for the good of the collective. They will resort to any means (cheating, lying, etc.) because they are doing it for "your benefit" or the benefit of the majority and that makes it right.
    Any dissidence is severely punished and it is worse if you were one of the original True Believers. Now you have become a traitor and you should be punished alongside those stubborn individuals from the other side that refuse to be assimilated.

    The true difference is that we are truly open minded. The opposition is narrow minded, fanatical and could be deadly for your rights and your life.

    You wanna see a sample of their biggest Borgs? zombietime
    Warning, lots of pics are NSFW
    Miggy...
    Now that zombietime sample was a 'real trip' into the world of wacko's...
    It's hard to believe that so many people have such a warped sense of humanity. They should all have a chance to live in some of the other countries that share their ideals...it would be a 'mind changer' for them...
    It certainly can make the blood boil when one realizes that our troops (and our country) have made so many sacrifices to ALLOW these 'loud misfits' the opportunity to do what they do...

    Thanks for posting this eye-opener...lots of pics?...an understatement!

    ret
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    The only "cons" that really concern me are "convicts"or future convicts or wantabe convicts that prey on law abiding citizens because they are too lazy to get a job to support themselves or feel like they have a right to your property that you have worked hard for.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Great. Now I'm having an identity crisis because I don't know what I am. I was happy being a conservative American, is that an Ameri-con?
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

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