June 30th, 2008 08:25 PM
55% of Gun Deaths are Suicide
This report is making a big jump - Since more than half of all gun deaths are suicides, homes with guns are more likely to have suicides.
"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence,"
ABC News: CDC: 55% of Gun Deaths are Suicides
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
June 30th, 2008 08:41 PM
55% of the news media are lying ,cheating socialist/marxists/pigs that want America to self destruct.
Thats probably as accurate as that last statement by the CDC...which happens to be a rabid anti gun organization.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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June 30th, 2008 08:43 PM
It is easy to get statistics to say what you want. What % of suicides are with firearms? What % of suicide attempts are with firearms?
I put no faith in that stat.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
June 30th, 2008 08:45 PM
its like that cable commercial... "90% of stats can be made to say whatever you want... 50% of the time."
thats the first thing i thought of
June 30th, 2008 08:47 PM
I'm surprised they don't just call it "death with dignity." Guns are much more humane than say slitting your wrists or hanging yourself.
June 30th, 2008 08:50 PM
I knew a man who, when his cancer had brought his life to near an end,
Originally Posted by alfack
did what he had to do.
At least it was quick and effective with a gun.
The docs had nothing to offer him but 3 more weeks of misery.
June 30th, 2008 09:03 PM
Its probably true. Not every statistic that shows guns in a bad light is made up by socialists ;-). The real question is: Will non gun owners just use a different suicide method? What is your probability of committing suicides? Does it change for gun owners significantly?
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)
June 30th, 2008 09:03 PM
I checked the CDC website. It said that in 2005, there were 372,722 people were treated in emergency rooms for self inflicted injuries.
Yes, that's over 370,000 people who tried to off themselves! The CDC is worried about guns???? Maybe the CDC need to concern themselves with preventing people from getting to this point, or helping them out. No, I forgot..... it's the guns.
I just thought that was a very sad statistic.
June 30th, 2008 09:05 PM
My first wife took her own life with a Gun. She had tried overdose and when that didn't work the Gun did. I don't blame the Gun. But it is true that it is an effective means and used often. So what is the point? They were suicidal?
June 30th, 2008 09:10 PM
As an LEO, I've investigated a few suicides... perhaps 8 or so. Only one was by firearm, and only one did the victim not have access to a gun.
Most of the time, methods of suicide are chosen for a reason, and most dont want the mess GSW's make. Those who do use a gun, are determined individuals and will complete the task no matter the tool.
June 30th, 2008 09:39 PM
The statistic they are citing is not generated by ABC news but has been around for sometime as sourced from the indicted sources of The American Public Health Association and the American Association of Suicidology. The Brady Group amongst others have for ages been referencing and citing the exact same information.
Heck I myself have cited this too several times toward gun conversations.
Further ABC News goes on to state "Surprising Fact: Half of Gun Deaths Are Suicides". Duh.
This fact is only surprising if you have not taken a look at the CDC website which for over a decade has stated as much, which ABC News also cites and states. The information and data has been out there if only one take a moment to seek it out and read.
Further the vast majority of gun related crime has a verifiable relation to mental illness be it from suicides (not all but very much most) to street crimes and mall murderers. This too is not new news and has been discussed in detail even here at DC.com.
As to statements that those with a gun in the home have a higher incident of suicide, that is not surprising.
As much is perceived by the general public to be the best and quickest measure of offing ones self. Suicide though is not limited to guns though. On the whole suicide and mental health is the problem, not gun ownership.
As to use of a gun toward suicides being greater than for defense of self, that statement is based on incomplete math. The CDC tabulates items reported as crimes and of that crimes where the victim reported using a firearm to defend them self. Crimes that are not reported and/or pre-crimes that have been stifled if not stopped by armed citizens those too are not reported, thus the CDCs numbers as tabulated are not accurate to that end.
Anyway the writer of this article only knows some of the mathand thus part of the whole of the truth, as sourced via the CDC. Because the CDC only has some of the math available to itself.
As to suicides that activity has and will continue to occur even where firearms are heavily banned for citizen possession. See that of England as an example.
The UK is the polaropposite of the US when it comes to guns and gun laws.
Yet they have a suicide rate that is as per the World Health Organization _tied_ with that of the U.S.; WHO: Suicide rates.
How can that be you might ask when the U.S. has a gun in every third home? It could be because having a gun in ones home does not actually mean anything when it comes to firearms and that the lack of as much simply motivates one to find other methods, as have those of the UK done in practice.
Further the article does not the not exactly obscure factoid that Blacks on the whole as a percentage rarely commit suicide and that suicide rates in the US amongst races has always and does still vary greatly.
So really it's no surprise at all that suicide rates in D.C. in specific have been low and that they have decreased in the 32 yrs. that the gun ban has been in place.
Elderly White Men Afflicted by High Suicide Rates
U.S. Medical System Often Not Set Up to Detect Depression in the Aging
by Sandra Yin (August 2006)
While suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the United States, with 11 suicide deaths per 100,000 Americans, white men over the age of 65 commit suicide at almost triple that overall rate.3 These men are also eight times more likely to kill themselves than are women of the same age group, and have almost twice the rate of all other groups of male contemporaries.
Grim Comparisons by Sex, Race, and Ethnicity
Overall, three times as many women as men in the United States report a history of attempted suicide.5 But men are four times more likely to actually kill themselves.6 Choice of method may play a role in explaining this gender disparity: White men tend to use more violent and more lethal means than other suicide victims. In 2001, 73 percent of all suicide deaths and 80 percent of all firearm suicide deaths were white males.7
Disparities along ethnic lines for elderly males are also substantial. Compared with white males ages 65 and older, African American males (9.2 suicides per 100,000), Hispanic or Latino males (15.6), and Asian or Pacific Islander males (17.5) in the same age range had significantly lower suicide rates (see Figure 2).
Male Death Rates for Suicide, by Race, Hispanic Origin, and Age, 2003
Source: National Center for Health Statistics, Health, United States, 2005.
And as black and white men age, the gap in suicide rates between the two groups widens considerably. White males in the 45-64 age range commit almost three times as many suicides (26.1 per 100,000) as their black male contemporaries (at 9.0 per 100,000). The disparity grows among those ages 75-84 (37.5 per 100,000 for whites, compared with 11.3 per 100,000 for black males).
And suicide grows as a risk for white elderly males as they age. White men ages 85 and older have the highest annual suicide rate of any group—51.4 deaths per 100,000. In contrast, the highest rate for white women peaks between ages 45 and 64 at 7.8 deaths per 100,000.
Source- Elderly White Men Afflicted by High Suicide Rates - Population Reference Bureau
Anyone who is knowledgeable of D.C. and it's history also knows that it's population over that same time period has changed drastically from being majority white up to the mid 70s and then changing to become very much majority Black into the current times at 56% per the U.S. Census Bureau; District of Columbia QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
BTW knowing this information does not require one to be a scientist or even have a PC at hand. This is all general and not obscure knowledge.
Further it took me just 15 minutes to locate the above cited sources and same to actually draft this post.
Why the reported from ABCNews did not follow through on the analysis to come to if not discover same (which he would have had he tried), that is the only "surprising" item as related to this subject and article.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
June 30th, 2008 09:46 PM
Huh... the stats regarding race were interesting. I wonder why such a difference.
June 30th, 2008 09:49 PM
Mixed Martial Arts Record= 2-0.......Kyokushin Karate Record=5-0
USMC.....helping enemies of America die for their countries since 1775
June 30th, 2008 09:58 PM
In 2006, Gary Mauser and Don Kates authored a study entitled, Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence.
The opening sentence of their introduction: "The world abounds in instruments with which people can kill each other."
They note that the mantra more guns = more death/fewer guns = less death is also used to argue that "limiting access to firearms could prevent many suicides. Once again, this assertion is directly contradicted by the studies of 36 and 21 nations (respectively), which find no statistical relationship: overall suicide rates were no worse in nations with many firearms than in those where firearms were far less widespread."
They give several examples, including the tables which include Poland and Spain. Spain has over 12 times the gun ownership of Poland, while Poland's overall suicide rate is more than double that of Spain.
They add, "The simple fact is that there is no relationship evident between the extent of suicide and the extent of gun ownership. People do not commit suicide because they have guns available. In the absence of firearms, people who are inclined to suicide just kill themselves some other way."
Anyway, it is worth picking up this 117 page study. It debunks with facts the myths regarding violence-both homicide and suicide-and the relationship (none) to gun ownership.
Last edited by miklcolt45; June 30th, 2008 at 10:00 PM.
Reason: clarification, grammar, punctuation
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
June 30th, 2008 10:08 PM
Another great post by Jang ; thanks
Another great post. Very interesting.
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