Question for the Devil Dogs out there

This is a discussion on Question for the Devil Dogs out there within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I was just talking to day with a guy about various things and while searching Google Maps, Camp Pendleton came up, which with my ADD ...

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Thread: Question for the Devil Dogs out there

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Question for the Devil Dogs out there

    I was just talking to day with a guy about various things and while searching Google Maps, Camp Pendleton came up, which with my ADD led me to looking at other bases. I then came across Guantanamo, and I started thinking and wondering something...

    With our rocky history with Cuba, how are we able to have a base there?
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    We got as a gift for Liberating Cuba from Spain
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    We actually pay for it, lease the land for like $1/yr. All legal and everything. Fidel has refused to cash the checks, however for like 50 years or something. He claims it to be an illegal occupation.
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    I'm not a Marine, but I was able to find this info about Guantanamo Bay on Wikipedia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Guantanamo Bay Naval Base is located on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba and has been used by the United States Navy for more than a century. It is the oldest overseas U.S. Navy Base and the only one in a country with which the United States does not have diplomatic relations.[1] The United States controls the land on both sides of the southern part of Guantánamo Bay (Bahía de Guantánamo in Spanish) under a lease set up in the wake of the 1898 Spanish-American War. The lease was established in a 1903 agreement between the two governments, and its terms were modified in a 1934 treaty.[2][3] The current Cuban government considers the U.S. presence in Guantánamo to be an illegal occupation of the area, and argues that the Cuban-American Treaty, which established the lease in 1903, now violates article 52 of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.[4][5] However, Article 4 of the same document states that the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties shall not be retroactively applied to any treaties made before it.[6] The U.S. also argues that its right to the base have been reaffirmed by Cuba since the original treaty.

    Since 2002, the naval base has contained a military prison, the Guantanamo Bay detention camp, for persons alleged to be militant combatants captured in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. Prior to July 11, 2006, the Bush Administration maintained that these prisoners are not protected under the Geneva Convention. [7]

    The ongoing detention of prisoners at the base is in itself said to constitute a violation of the original treaty, which explicitly states that the base is to be used for "coaling and naval purposes only, and for no other purpose". The treaty also explicitly prohibits the use of "commercial, industrial or other enterprise within said areas", yet the base sports half a dozen fast-food concessions, including a McDonald's.[8]
    You can read the full entry here. I know that info on Wikipedia isn't always accurate, but this article appears to be well referenced.

    Brian

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    I didn't know that, and hadn't really thought about it before.

    Ol Fidel (isn't his brother or cousin in charge now) may not like it, but even he knows he doesn't have a snowballs chance of taking that land back. So he has about $50 worth of uncashed checks huh, I'll bet at least 48 of them have expired, wouldn't they come with the same "must be deposited within one year" note any other gov't check has. Oh well, he'll just need to sell one more box of cigars and all will be well.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    They all pretty much got it.

    And it wasn't really until after WW2 that things got real rocky with Cuba, back at the turn of the century they actually wanted and accepted our help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupcake View Post
    We actually pay for it, lease the land for like $1/yr. All legal and everything. Fidel has refused to cash the checks, however for like 50 years or something. He claims it to be an illegal occupation.
    February 7, 1901, Cubanan President Tomás Estrada Palma signed the agreement ceding Cuban territory to the United States in order for it to construct a naval base in Guantanamo.

    December 10, 1903, the United States took possession of the territory for its naval base in Guantanamo. Via a supplementary agreement signed on July 2, 1903, the U.S. government promised to pay 2,000 pesos per year in U.S. gold.

    FWIIW -- From '61 Bay of Pigs until '64 Freash water was a major contenious point with the Cuban Government.

    Guantanamo Bay area is a semi-arid desert very similar to the climate found in San Diego, California. The Cuban Government used the water supply to try fourcing the US out. From 62-64 them cutting the water supply and us reestablishing it was an ongoing game -- with lots of side-bar.

    The Cuban Government ordered the water supply to the base turned off on Feb. 6, 1964. We cut the water line from the Yateras River, in front of members of the media. Section were removed to disprove the Cuban Government allegation that the U.S. was stealing water. Section of both the pipes were cut and lifted from the ground proving that they were dry and then we sealed the opening permanently.

    The water use of 10,000 Naval and civilian personnel was limited to only fresh water shipped in bulk from the US mainland, until 1 MGD multiple stage flash seawater conversion plant was relocate the from Point Loma, CA to Guantanamo Bay.
    Last edited by DaveH; July 3rd, 2008 at 08:20 PM.
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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    50yrs...100 yrs, everything before about 1990 is a blur. What does 2000 pesos equal, anyway?
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    Can I assume that we still have the active minefield there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi.45 View Post
    Can I assume that we still have the active minefield there?
    Someone more currently involved needs to answer, that.

    However, I talked to young Maryland National Guardsmen returning from GTMO in '05, and the Cactus Curtain was still there, as well as the big EGA on the concrete wall and the Northeast Gate meetings/talks were still taking place.
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    I have been stationed at GTMO before, and I can tell you it doesn't look anything like Bad Boys II or A Few Good Men would have you think....

    The sky is pretty, the rest is dirt and scrub brush. Lots of banana rats and crabs on the fenceline road, which stinks. There are mines there - I don't think it should be discussed though.

    Its a pretty regular place - Cubans try to come over, we turn them back over to the Cubans. All traffic going into Cuba through GTMO has to pass through the series of watergates in place there - we have one, and the Cubans have one. You can see it on Google Earth....

    Austin

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