July 11th, 2008 01:25 PM
Maybe he should be issued the same holster FFDOs wear--the one with the lock through it. That way he won't lose it!
Sixto--suppose a non-LEO were to use the same holster this officer used (along the same thread of using the same ammo PDs use)--what then? Wouldn't the non-LEO be held accountable via arrest and prosecution??
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 11th, 2008 01:51 PM
"Eells said Eveleth was nearing the end of his eight-hour shift about 5:15 a.m. Monday when he took the dog to the park. He said the dog had been patrolling with the officer in his car and that Eveleth wanted to give it time to exercise."
He wasn't on any specific police assignment here.
I'm not one to rock the boat, I'm just trying to keep it steady now. He may not have had any choice in the equipment he was issued, and he may well not have felt the difference in weight without the gun, but nonetheless, I refuse to accept the fact that it was the equipment's fault. One of my relatives was horsing around with my daughter, he rocked backwards and the mag release button depressed enough to release the mag from his holstered gun. He similarly was distracted, while playing with someone. The weight came from an already 'heavy' p229. He noticed immediately, stopped playing, reinserted the mag, and then made sure he didn't rock backwards again!
It's the individual's situational awareness which is at fault here.
July 11th, 2008 02:13 PM
Man, this happened in Texas. At least one of the women was probably licensed to carry and knew how to handle a gun. Also, they were honest enough to call the cops and report it instead of keeping it or selling it to a gang-banger.
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
Our women here are pretty gun-savvy.
July 11th, 2008 06:01 PM
But Joe Civilian is still there on his own accord, doing whatever activity he is doing on his own with no city sanction.
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
In a sense, the city sent the officer there to the park, with his gun in that holster. They do bear some of the responsibility of what their employee does. Again, the officer is defiantly at fault, bottom line is he screwed up. However, it is a different circumstance than when Joe CCW drops his gun.
Agreed , the officer should have noticed the gun missing. There is no argument there. But, I'm pointing out that it is very easy to miss the extra weight on duty belt specifically designed to carry said weight all day comfortably. A good thigh rig distributes the weight very nicely.
Originally Posted by tamworth
July 12th, 2008 09:47 AM
I'm not out for blood or seeing this guy fired or even reprimanded harshly. I can understand that this can occasionally happen, even to a trained veteran. That is not my point at all. I'm still questioning the apparent double standard in treatment between the two groups.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
It seems to me that there is joint responsibility. The officer was issued substandard gear by their own admission, and whoever made the decision should share in some of the responsibility. I would guess that it was either a "budgetary consideration", or the buyer isn't a gun person and just didn't know. Knowing that he had less than optimum equipment he should have paid more attention, on this I think we are on the same page.
If Joe Civilian made the same "budgetary consideration" as the department or bought a holster he thought would work, I really don't see much of a difference. But unfortunately there is a difference in the way each is treated. Both scenarios could easily fit both the department and Joe Civilian. How many of us DON'T have a box of holsters that didn't work out?
We could even carry it further and say that Joe Civilian was legally open carrying in a holster he had confidence in because it was the SAME holster issued by his local police department (must be the best and safest right? That's why he bought it.). He was playing with his own dog and the gun fell out and went unnoticed for several hours.
Other than being on the job, there really is no difference is there? If there is, please let me know (really) On the job or off the job, a mistake is a mistake. Under the same set of circumstances one group instantly assumed guilty, negligent, non caring, non professional and unsafe. While another group is excused because of their status. That is my issue, has nothing to do with this particular individual.
July 12th, 2008 10:25 AM
Your right Holdcard, and I agree with you.What I'm saying is, why in the world would the same city who was a party to the mistake, take any criminal or civil action against its self or an agent acting lawfully under their umbrella?
The punishment for the officers mistake will be handled internally, as I'm sure they don't want this publicized even more than it already has been.
July 12th, 2008 04:03 PM
I can understand how he might have had his gun drop. I used a Blackhawk thigh rig and had my HK USP fall out while crouching. Luckily I noticed it at the time, got a retention lanyard and eventually a different rig.
Yes LE and citizens should be held to the same standard. Unfortunately they are not....................both good and bad.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
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