whining nation

This is a discussion on whining nation within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us...ss&oref=slogin BELLEVILLE, Mich. — Senator John McCain has spent the week trying to tell people that he feels their economic pain. So it was more ...

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    whining nation

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us...ss&oref=slogin

    BELLEVILLE, Mich. — Senator John McCain has spent the week trying to tell people that he feels their economic pain. So it was more than a little unhelpful when one of his top economic advisers was quoted Thursday as saying that the United States was only in a “mental recession” and that it had become a “nation of whiners.”

    At a factory in Belleville, Mich., John McCain told workers Thursday: “America is hurting today. Michigan is hurting today.”
    The adviser, former Senator Phil Gramm, Republican of Texas, sought to clarify his remarks Thursday by saying he had been referring only to some of the nation’s leaders.
    what do you all think about this? i found that this comment stuck in my head, and kept roaming around in it. i then found myself getting annoyed, not because what he said insulted us as a nation, but because he was right. we have become a nation of whiners. i look around, and it's like america is full of, and run by, a bunch of big babies.

    everything is always everyone else's fault, and it's not fair. our kids are fat, so we blame mcdonald's. our kids are stupid, so we blame our teachers. our kids are violent, so we blame TV, video games, and guns. when will people stop, take a look in the mirror, and realize that everything that's wrong with our culture is of our doing? our rights have been slowly but surely chipped away, our liberties curtailed, our lives disrupted. and we sat back, and let it happen.

    sorry for the rant. when i have time on my hands, this is what happens.

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    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    He was refering to the economy.... He's claiming our economic problems are just in our heads. Do you really buy that crap? Gas and food have nearly doubled in price in about a year, yeah sure it's all in our heads.
    Dave

    "When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
    -Herman Melville

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    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Sure, food and fuel (and other) costs are up sharply. That's a fact that nobody can deny. I took the statement to be a fairly accurate assessment of the mindset of the American sheeple. Many people, my brother included, will admit prices are up, but overall they are doing pretty well or keeping afloat. They are also quick to point out a friend who is struggling. They then turn on the news or read the paper and hear how everything sucks. Therefore, we are near the crisis point and everything is bad. Repeat this cycle across the country and you have a self-fulfilling prophecy. Banks will fail as people make a run (see IndyMac TODAY). People start hoarding (rice a few months ago). Nobody takes into account that the vast majority of the sheeple put themselves into a position of struggle. They didn't read the mortgage contract to learn the ramifications of an ARM (or worse, they got into speculative real estate to flip houses then the market dropped). They ran their credit cards to the max and then the minimum payment doubled or tripled. They bought things they shouldn't have (on credit) and now can't afford their credit-based lifestyle. Then, after years of bad decisions, blame someone (or something) else and turn to the government to make everything alright. I feel for those people and thank God I didn't take that path. But should it be up to me and you (the taxpayors) to bail them out?

    I feel the pain at the pump at home and at work with a fleet of 15 vehicles (my P&L has taken a major hit). I've had to make changes in my food buying habits. I do NOT blame anyone else for my lot in life. I had choices and made them. Some were good and some were bad. I deal with it - we all do! Remember the rhetoric before the 2004 Presidential election? The facts and numbers proved we were still an expanding economy. Yet we heard how terrible everything was. Many people heard how bad things were and started to believe it. Wouldn't you know it - the economy did go into a minor slowdown. The same mindset existed before Reagan. Our President (Carter) was the biggest whiner and hand wringer in American history. A few years of gloom and doom on the tube and everyone agreed that life sucked. Reagan came along and convinced people to take responsibility for their own choices and actions and do something about their life. It worked! We entered the longest, most protracted expansion in recent memory. The only thing I want out of our government at this time is for all of them (both sides) to get their heads out of whatever orafice they're in and take action.

    If we all agree to throw in the towel, we will be in the end game. I choose not to take that path. I was laid off after 9/11 (like many) and am just now, 7 years later, almost back where I was financially on 9/11. I am happier for the last few years because of it.
    Tim
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    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    This is the season for it. Politicians are going to paint the worst picture about the economy so that they can be our messiah and savior. Sure prices are up but this is how the economy works. Nothing stays up for long. They are corrections and then growth.
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    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    He claims we are only in a 'mental recession', which is insulting. The fact is that the word recession has a definition, and he didn't look it up before spewing his words into that mic. He's full of it. Prices aren't just up, a sharp spike like this has a huge impact on the WORLD economy. It's not just gas and food, the value of the dollar is *way* low too. Anyone try to visit Europe lately?
    Last edited by Scott; July 13th, 2008 at 06:52 PM. Reason: profanity removed
    Dave

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    Member Array N.M. Edmands's Avatar
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    to" sniper58"
    I would like to buy a coffee, beer, or soda!
    Your choice.
    Oh yeh? Well this was sent from the scary black electrical box under my desk, so there!
    "It aint how good you shoot, it's how cool you look doing it." [Fred Sayer 1994]
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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footslogger View Post
    He was refering to the economy.... He's claiming our economic problems are just in our heads. Do you really buy that crap? Gas and food have nearly doubled in price in about a year, yeah sure it's all in our heads.
    i know what that knucklehead was referring to....and, yes, he's full of it. what i was talking about was the phrase he used, not in reference to anything he was actually talking about. it was the phrase that got me thinking. to be honest, i stopped paying attention to anything any politician has to say; they're all liars and thieves.

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    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    Sorry if I highjacked your thread. I saw this guys statement on the news and it really made me angry. As if we're all imagining everything.

    But the phrase alone I agree with entirely. There is no question in my mind that the majority of people these days have no sense of responsibility, ownership, or loyalty to much of anything.
    Dave

    "When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
    -Herman Melville

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    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.M. Edmands View Post
    to" sniper58"
    I would like to buy a coffee, beer, or soda!
    Your choice.
    Thank you! It was beer and it tasted great!

    Foot - I'm right there with you. That was a dumb, dumb thing to say!

    I agree the idiot said something he shouldn't have. He's a politician and, like most, he doesn't realize that words mean things. A bone-headed statement to the wrong person at the wrong time and BOOM! - we're in a war. I think the new buzzword for making an idiotic, ill-thought remark is "inartful." Let's call it what it is - STUPID! A lesson I learned surviving several (but not the last) corporate downsizings is that at the end of the day, the ONLY thing in life over which we have direct control is how we react to a given situation - period.
    Last edited by sniper58; July 12th, 2008 at 12:03 AM. Reason: add
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Amen, Sniper.... I don't agree with everything Phil Gramm says either, but there is some wisdom in what he says. In terms of our current situation, I always think back to my grandparents explaining the great depression to me as a child. I also remember the 1970s when there was gasoline rationing, staggered school schedules to save energy, and interest rates were well into double digits.

    Do we see any of that here? no. Have we started rationing fuel? No. Do we have high unemployment? If you listen to the media and the democrats, we are nearing the end of the line. Our unemployment rates are about what they were during the Clinton "glory years" (before Monica). So recession? I think we are in a slowdown, and prices are high, but we are still eating. many folks made stupid choices in the financial arena, and they are paying the price for their stupidity now.

    The only question is, are we willing to bail them out? At least the congress is for now, judging by their huge mortgage bailout they just passed. One thing is certain, though and that is we are starting to wake up and discover that we have not been not minding the store and the bills are now due. We have no one to blame but ourselves, from the blue collar union guy who just blindly pulled the democrat handle in the voting booth for 40 years, clinging to the false hope that he would keep his job because they were the friends of the working man, to the CEO of the multi-national corporation that kept sending money to his lobbyist to wine and dine congressmen into passing legislation that helped foreign companies stomp us in the global arena.

    So I think this is necessary, all of it, The high gas and food prices, the crashing housing market, and the incompetents running for elections at every level of our local, state and federal governments. All of this is starting to wake people in this country up to what is really happening and they are getting pissed. This too, is a good thing, because they are now paying closer attention to what is really being said and done in our good names.

    After all, look at how far our gun ownership rights have come in the last 20 years. Violent crime has driven the need for everyone to examine how they feel about defending themselves. In the 1970s, people were told not to resist, just give the bad guy what he wants and everything will be OK. Today's level of violence has led to CCW laws in virtually all the states now, and it also brought things to a head with the Heller decision, which for the first time, acknowledges our RKBA.

    So don't worry, this is a cycle, we are just on the bad side of it now. It will get better.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    Pandering. That's all. Simple. Ask what your country can do for you........

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    Trust me the percentage of whiners and crybabies in this country is at an unprecedented all time high.

    Which certainly does not mean that every American is a whiner. Only that we have MORE than we have ever had.

    Also...talk about Americans and if we are whiners or not.

    Don't turn this into a McCain political thread or it will get closed and then some members will have to whine to a moderator complaining about Free Speech Rights and it getting closed.
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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Food prices will remain high as long as we take large amounts of it and put it into the gas tank. Fuel will remaim high as long as we refuse to use any of the huge reserves we own. Congress created these problems, and could solve them if that suited their goals.

    However, the party holding the majority of seats in Congess wants us to suffer, so that they can us our suffering to get their man into the White House. Should that happen, Lord help us.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    I think Gramm's comments were right on the money. All we have heard from the mainstream media is that woe is us. If you ask the man on the street he will say our economy is hurting and that we are in a recession heading towards a depression. Only because that he what he has been told by the liberal whiners on telelvision.

    Of course, the facts are quite different than the perception, which was Gramm's point. We are not in recession by any definition. Yes, higher prices do hurt a small segment of society. But whining and looking to government to solve personal financial problems is a type of dependency we associate with children not reponsible adults.

    The constant pounding of negativity becomes a self inflicted wound. The great thing about Reagan was that he was always upbeat, positive and optimistic. And that mindset is infectious. And that is what we are dearly lacking in today's politics.

    Yes, gas prices are a bit higher because we refuse to access the enormous supply available to us. But they are not so high that people are giving up their cell phones, internet connections, cable tv, ipods, and all those other 'necessities.' When gas prices really begin to affect people we will see more carpooling, more use of public transportation and more smaller (and more dangerous) fuel efficient cars.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    I vote...we are (by and large) a nation of whiners and victims.

    Everything that happens is somebody else's fault.
    Somebody else made me do it.
    Somebody else should do something about it.

    Are there legitimate situations where folks need help?
    You bet!

    Are there other situations where people made stupid decisions then wanted a mulligan provided by your tax dollars?
    Absolutely.

    Go ahead, fix the mess now. They'll be back in a decade, or two, or 5 years or whenever. It's usually when we hurt enough that we learn not to do that again. (Perhaps I am speaking only for myself...but I don't think so.)

    JMO. YMMV.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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