September 25th, 2008 11:51 AM
Starting Brazilian Jiu Jitsu...and other Martial Arts questions...
Next week I'll be starting Jiu Jitsu at what I believe is a good school. The head instructor is a black belt under Marcello "The Professor" Monteiro. The guy has been teaching my kids in the kiddie class and I've been pretty impressed with his patience with the little ones. He also has a Savate silver-gloves rating and teaches Muy Thai and Pentjak Silat. Another instructor teaches Tae Kwan Do there also.
So anyway, any survival tips for a BJJ newbie? I've been losing weight and strength training and working on my cardio for the last couple months.
I'm also trying to decide what I might want to take to complement my grappling training. I've considered judo, thinking it might greatly expand my throwns/takedown options and joint locks while standing. But then there are the striking arts to choose from too.
I tend to think of muy thai for simple and brutally effective striking, but like boxing and Savate, these are sports and focus on just one opponent in a ring, from what I understand. I'd like to get some training against weapons and multiple opponents, and TKD might have an edge there, but I think too much training time is wasted punching air and learning 12 different ways to stand. Why do they do that? From what I can see watching UFC and other fights, simple simply wins. I've never heard of Pentjak Silat.
OK, I think I'm babbling now. Your turn. Any advice, random martial arts thoughts, or babbling welcome, except that I'd really like for this to not turn into a "never go to the ground"/"groundfighting is the best" thread. I believe that it is a valuable tool to be added to a complete tool set, so We'll have to live with that.
September 25th, 2008 12:26 PM
Buy a bigger Water Heater so you can soak.......buy plenty of Advil.....
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
September 25th, 2008 12:36 PM
Martial Arts only gives you a marked advantage against someone who doesn't know how to fight.
If you run into someone who does, it can buy you some time to try and get a superior weapon (like a gun or knife) into the fight.
And it is zero help at all if you run into someone who knows how to fight and is bigger,stronger and faster than you are. Then you have to get lucky.
I don't mean to put you off on learning it, just putting it into perspective.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
September 25th, 2008 01:51 PM
I've had some experiences in martial arts, so I feel kind of justified throwing in my two cents. TKD is a sport, even more so then Savate.
Originally Posted by Cupcake
Silat on the other hand, is a very down and dirty fighting style from the Indonesia if I remember correctly
All in all best of luck, stock up on Advil, hot water bottles and Tiger's Balm.
It takes a college degree to break'em;
and a high school education to fix'em!
September 25th, 2008 03:14 PM
Try Krav Maga. It doesn't have the fancy kicks or punches, it's a brutal, no-nonsense form of street fighting. It teaches you how to deal with everyday real world situations, and should compliment what you learn in Jiu Jitsu. Have fun and don't beat up on the instructors to bad!
"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals
." - Sir Winston Churchill
September 25th, 2008 03:49 PM
I have taken a Krav Maga class and had a work out you would not believe . Israel deals with BG everyday. Simple and it works. Advil=Good!!
Originally Posted by spooter66
September 25th, 2008 03:54 PM
A good wrestling background always helps.
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
September 25th, 2008 04:20 PM
That bottle of darvocet that I never took when I had my vasectomy...check!---Scratch that, It's about 4 yrs old now...
There is a pretty good Jewish/Israeli Population around here, so Maybe a good Krav school wouldn't be impossible to find. For the moment, it's BJJ, and I suspect when I add a stand-up style, it'll have to be something they offer at the same place for a while, since I'll already be paying the "take all the training you can handle" price for myself and 2 kids.
Not sure how to respond...thanks I think? Obviously no tool fits every job...bigger...stronger...faster...knowledgeable.. .I guess it depends on what he's knowledgeable...To say it's of no use I think is a stretch, though.
Originally Posted by edr9x23super
September 25th, 2008 04:32 PM
I personally started with TKD, I know it is a sport martial art, but it certainly compliments what I learned on the streets growing up. My instructor was taught by a man who combined TKD and Kenpo, so we have a little less prettiness to ours. Also the Wife and 4 kids are beign taught by the same couple, so it is also a family fitness deal (great motivation and accountability).
I am looking in to Krav Maga or Kenpo for later, but would flat die if I did those right now as I am no where near the shape I would need to be in to get the full learning effect from either.
Anyway, anything is better than nothing. Even if you add only a little, there are some situations where it can be beneficial.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
September 25th, 2008 05:09 PM
Silat is indeed a very down and dirty style. You learn to use your elbows, knees, hands,feet,etc. along with knives, sticks and environmental weapons( books, scarves,belts etc.) if I remember correctly. There is a school that teaches that style and Kali in my neck of the woods and plan to investigate it soon. If I like what I see,will become a student.
September 25th, 2008 05:59 PM
Background ... I wrestled for 13 years through High School and into college. I'm also a veteran of more than my share of fights (in my wild youth).
Here is my two cents: Anybody can strike. It's not that hard to learn (that's not saying most people couldn't get better). Most drunks in a bar know how to through a heavy punch. The BJJ, however, is where it's at. Practice the grappling as much as possible. Grappling is like another language, meaning most people don't understand it. They are totally lost and can't defend it. If you really get into a fight it is UNBELIEVABLE how easy it is to control another persons actions and reactions. Additionaly, I think the muy thai would compliment the grappling very well. Elbows are vicious in close and if you can throw elbows (and knees) you will be hard to beat! In closing I'll say that there is a reason that the ufc is so heavily populated with grapplers. They win.
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
September 25th, 2008 06:17 PM
Cupcake, it is my understanding that the major Brazilian martial art is Capoera; based on African dances the slaves brought to Brazil and developed into fighting art as weapons were forbidden to them. Quite fascinating to watch and it looks dang effective. I don't know about "Brazilian ju jitso." I'd not monkey with someone who is skilled at Capoera.
There is a grown at home martial art called "jail house" which originated in (obviously) Brooklyn. I think its hasic elements are Capoera, modified for confined spaces.
Quite apart from the technique issues, the cultural anthropology of marital arts is extremely interesting. I just tossed a book which might help you--if you can stomach an academic tome on the martial arts. Title was something like The Martial Arts in the Modern World-- probably not the exact title. Written by an anthropology prof at Texas A&M U. If you are interested in this sort of thing as well as learning the drill, let me know and I will get the exact citation for you. The guy did some teaching at the academy I went to and had some fascinating insights into the less familiar (to us) martial arts.
For practical stuff, I'm inclined to think Krav M. is probably going to get you where you want to be more quickly. If you want to spend a few years learning, some of these other arts are quite remarkable, but like learning to play violin, take a long long time till you can make beautiful music.
September 25th, 2008 07:50 PM
My daughter took Krav Maga classes this year, and I was very impressed with:
1) it isn't an 'art' - you don't get points for 'pretty' - you get points for walking home.
2) it isn't a 'religion' - they're cold-bloodedly scientific about how to take someone apart
3) there aren't tournaments - it is too easy to hurt the other guy they way they fight
4) they train against knives, guns, and multiple assailants
5) if it's good enough for the Israeli Armed Forces...
September 25th, 2008 08:09 PM
From what I saw on Human Weapon, savate is also a combat martial art, just depends on style of teacher you would have. Of the choices you listed, I would say Pentjak Silat. Its pretty brutal and effective. Krav Maga would be a good choice. Another possibility would be aikido, especially since you mention throws and joint locks while standing. Just my .02 cents.
Originally Posted by Cupcake
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt
September 25th, 2008 08:43 PM
Haganah, Krav Maga, Muy Tai, Silat, or anything similar would be a good compliment to the BJJ. You just need to be well rounded. If you want something that's going to get you street effective in an extremely short period of time...go with the Haganah (referred to as the FIGHT system sometimes).
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
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