Off Topic Rant on the Economy and Politics - Page 2

Off Topic Rant on the Economy and Politics

This is a discussion on Off Topic Rant on the Economy and Politics within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; But wait, the government is giving AIG another 35 billion dollars, on top of the 85 billion already approved for them. If the American people ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34
  1. #16
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,788

    Thumbs down AIG gets another 35 Billion?

    But wait, the government is giving AIG another 35 billion dollars, on top of the 85 billion already approved for them.

    If the American people aren't ready to clean house in Washington this election, when will we be? I suspect never personally.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,990
    Where Next For AIG? Who Is John Galt?

    Where next for AIG? Who is John Galt?

    * Paul Mason, BBC
    * Wed 17 Sep 08, 04:34 AM

    I am writing this on a train from NewYork to Washington. I have just reported on Newsnight that the US government is considering "taking AIG into conservatorship". There is a pink sky over New Jersey. The brakeman on the Amtrak is whistling Richard Halley's Fifth Concerto.

    Actually this last detail cannot be true because, as all afficionados of Ayn Rand know, Richard Halley did not write a Fifth Concerto. He retreated to Colorado like the rest of America's disgruntled capitalists and creatives until the great art-deco rebellion described in Atlas Shrugged took off.

    Think I am hallucinating? Well I blame Dagny Taggart for what's going on with AIG. Dagny Taggart is the heroine of Atlas Shrugged; and Atlas Shrugged (1957) is a kind of Lord of the Rings for people who dont like heavily-regulated business. In it Dagny single handedly takes on the forces that are holding back American entrepreneurship: sloth, bureaucracy, unions, intellectual property theft and over-regulation.

    All unionists, sloths, regulators, IP sneaks and bureaucrats are portrayed as sympathetically in Atlas Shrugged as are the Orcs in Tolkien. Rand was one of the authors who inspired Alan Greenspan and a whole bunch of other people who helped shape the current financial architecture.

    For much of today I have been slinking around in my trenchcoat and trilby (this bit I made up) outside the distinctly Dagny-esque HQ of AIG corporation (think Gotham City with Wi-Fi). AIG is in such deep trouble that it is seeking a 75 billion dollar bailout from JP Morgan or failing that, from the US government (this bit I did not make up). Inside that amazing Jugendstil tower on New York's Pine Street, clad with aluminium plate, lit like the set of a Bogart movie, they have been fighting for survival all day.

    AIG has been brought down to earth by the subprime crisis, into which it threw itself with the same reckless abandon as, er, Dagny herself shows in Chapter 8 with Hank Rearden.

    ...Arriving at Washington's Union Station, with the yellow light streaking down the windowpanes and the click heels of a hundred weak and tired executives echoing through its marble opulence, a cab driver opened the door.

    "What's happened to AIG?" I asked.

    "Who is John Galt?" he answered, before slipping silently into the shadows.

    Somewhere between there and the sultry decadence of New Hampshire Avenue Paul Mason, lean, haggard and exhausted, learned that Hank Paulson has indeed bailed out AIG, to the tune of 85 billion dollars. It is not in conservatorship - ie quasi-nationalisation - but Paulson has had to go to Capitol Hill to get the OK for it, as it is just as good as state controlled right now. Mason sighed. Once again he would have to pick himself up and pull his trench coat around his haggard neck, tipping the brim of his trilby hat low into the night...

    Actually, once again, the US authorities have proved capable of a bit of that human greatness that Ayn Rand celebrates in the novel: they have improvised and, against all ideological prejudice, saved a major institution with timely and unique government action. What we don't know yet is if it will work long term.

    So why do I blame Rand, Dagny and Atlas Shrugged? Answer: for making regulation a matter of dogma, for and against, instead of a matter of technique and creativity. It is now clear that, instead of light-touch regulation, what was needed over the decade of financial innovation was something in another dimension: the pro-active pursuit of rectitude and transparency, leaving behind the old rules of "regulate-deregulate". How AIG can be valuing its Alt-A debt at 67 cents per dollar when Lehman went bust valuing Alt-A at 39 cents is, frankly, an indictment of the regulatory regime on Wall Street. It's not a problem that I don't know who's valuation is correct: it is a problem that nobody can know.

    In the book the ultimate hero/wise man figure, John Galt, proclaims: "I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine." I find this credo a challenging counter-argument to the co-dependent culture of our times, but as a shaper of business strategy it has brought great corporations to their knees in days that had lasted more than a century.

    As a creed it is being rapidly and publicly disowned by both parties: Obama and McCain are, as I speak, knocking lumps out of each other on the networks over the failure to properly regulate; and CNN is doing an explainer on FDR's New Deal.

    In the next decade the debate over regulation will not be over strong versus weak regulation, but clever versus dumb: it's a global system and the light touch regulators have a point in that heavy handedness simply drives the problem offshore. But American capitalism was, today, teetering on the brink of a really serious business failure - manifestly because AIG's activities had slipped through what now looks like pretty ineffective regulation.

    There are some very serious people who swear by Ayn Rand's book: I've seen it handed out for free like Chairman Mao's Little Red Book at venture capital seminars. I respect those people, and I know why the book inspires them; likewise it stuns me that loads of clever people in the internet generation have never read it, and will only know it through Angelina Jolie's upcoming film. Its worth reading.

    But the masters of the financial universe have, seriously, got to move on from Dagny Taggart. She's a great human role model, but guys it's just a book! Running the real economy, as Hank Paulson has proved tonight, you have to put behind you romanticism and ideology of every kind.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,291
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Mason's a moron that can't read between the lines....BBC tagged after his name should be a hint.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The western edge of The Confederacy
    Posts
    2,198
    Gun owners planning to vote for third party candidates or not vote at all, are simply handing Osama an easy victory. Remember there are more issues than the economy. The economic turmoil will sort itself out, and it won't be because of anything a junior senator from the Peoples Republic of Illinois did, although he'll try to take credit for it.
    Banking and Mortgage regulations will have to be changed. This whole mess was a result of the mortgage meltdown and the solution to that is simple, allow banks to make a profit but not a killing. Allow only fixed rate mortgages instead of mortgages whose interest rates soar, making them impossible to pay.
    People are fools to fall for such nonsense and only find themselves on the street as a result.
    The bottom line however is that McCains economic plan is a lot more feasible than Osama's. Osama as usual is making all kinds of promises he can't keep, just to get elected. There's no way he can give 95% of taxpayers a tax cut, while initiating a health care plan costing over $1,000,000,000,000,000.00 (trillion). Besides, Osamas history of voting 94 times for a tax increase simply doesn't give him credibility. Of course by the time voters realize this, he'll be in office and we won't be able to do anything about it. Remember, regardless of what happens to the economy, you're going to be stuck with this guy for 4 long
    gun rights assaulting years and I certainly wouldn't put any faith in a democratically controlled congress that'll rubber stamp all his legislation.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,788
    automatic slim,

    There is a lot of misinformation in your post, you should at least post factual things if you want someone to take it serious. Secondly, trying to call attention to his name by misspelling it with the known conotation doesn't do your cause any good.

    If you can't make an arguement with logic and facts, you might as well fill your mouth or keyboard with horse hockey and spew it.

    Neither candidate has a economic plan now, or a very good one to start with, since Washington has engaged in the largest give away of borrowed taxpayer money, there will be little or nothing left in the area a discretionary spending to help with much of anything let alone the economy.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  6. #21
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,662
    SD wrote: "Gold is money. It has been for millenia. It was money and a store of value long before it had 'uses.' Gold is the standard against which all money is measured."

    It is also a commodity. Like all commodities, its ultimate value depends on supply. It makes no more sense to depend on "the value" of something which can be found in the ground, or the streams, and for which substitutes are rapidly being created, than to depend on paper money --the value of which is also variable based on "supply." Both are artificial measures of value.

    Now, as a practical matter paper money IS money. And, we are stuck with inflation especially as governments world wide overspend and print the stuff to make ends meet.

    So, buy ammo. At least when the price falls you can have fun with it. And if the shtf, it has practical utility.

    OK---investors! Are there any publicly traded companies which make the bulk of their income from the sale of ammo to the consumer market? If yes, how are they doing in this market.

    Maybe the best way to buy ammo is to buy into the companies that manufacture the stuff???? Any thoughts from the gallery?

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    737
    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    automatic slim,
    There is a lot of misinformation in your post, you should at least post factual things if you want someone to take it serious. Secondly, trying to call attention to his name by misspelling it with the known conotation doesn't do your cause any good.
    If you can't make an arguement with logic and facts, you might as well fill your mouth or keyboard with horse hockey and spew it.
    I agree. Although Automatic Slim makes a few points (such as, NOT voting is almost as good as a vote for Obama), that's not the way to score any political victories. It's been proven that negative campaigning just annoys voters.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Neither candidate has a economic plan now, or a very good one to start with, since Washington has engaged in the largest give away of borrowed taxpayer money, there will be little or nothing left in the area a discretionary spending to help with much of anything let alone the economy.
    110% nail-on-the-head.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    ma
    Posts
    2,366
    Gov. & Wall St. helped poor people buy homes on a massive scale they couldn't afford. All these losses will be "socialized" or paid by us the taxpayer. People are realizing they can vote themselves access to the wealth of the nation. The beginning of the end is at hand.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    737
    Anyone see the Dow today?

    Google Finance

    We're down 600 more points today, below $8,700.

    I'm actually getting frightened now. Kind of hard to focus on work when we're watching the economy die, on live TV....

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

  10. #25
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    307
    Just my .02 cents but......

    If you are pro-2A or pro-life (or maybe even just pro-constitutional) NOT voting or voting for a third party candidate, (which I would prefer to do, but won't unless it had a real chance of success) does cause damage. I do not think either candidate is the best choice, given the probable policies. (McCain's service not withstanding)

    But in reality, at this time in history, we only have two REAL choices. So....

    1. Which candidate would you rather have picking the next few Supreme Court judges? That being said, if they would stop legislating from the bench, it wouldn't be quite so important, but...alas.

    2. A 'landslide' presidential election empowers a President alot more than a close win. Especially through subsequent legislative elections.

    3. If the win was close and a great deal of conservatives/republicans stayed home or 'threw their vote', we would have to wonder, 'what if?' and we'll have only ourselves to blame for the results.

    4. Many, many of our predecessors fought and died that we might have a 'free' vote and a constitution. To not exercise that freedom would be a slap in the face to those brave men & women.

    Just the view from my saddle.
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

  11. #26
    EW3
    EW3 is offline
    Senior Member Array EW3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,078
    I'm sad to say it, but the day this started was the day McCain lost.

    Get your guns and ammo stocks now, because it will be much harder under President Obama.
    "Naked and Starving as They are We Cannot Enough Admire the Incomparable Patience and Fidelity of the Soldiery" George Washington, Valley Forge, 1777.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    Ok, sports fans, heres some solutions:


    First and formeost, don't panic. This happens on a cyclical basis. the market is reindexing itself after an artificially inflated home market has finally collapsed. the same thing happened with the dot.coms after Clinton left office. It does not mean that we are heading for a depression.
    • The quick short-term solution to this problem is to reinstitute the regulations that laws like the CRA trashed; if you are going to buy a house, count on bringing at least 20% of the loan amount with your closing costs to the table.and be able to prove you acquired it legally. No exceptions. And when minority agitation groups file lawsuits to force our financial institutions to make bad loans, throw THEM in jail instead, or at least throw the cases out of court.The second part of this plan is to cut everybodys ' current credit card limits by 2/3 at least. No more "minimum payment" cards with hidden fees. just straighht up interest rates and simple terms.
    • The long term solution is to do what we did in the late '80s with the S&L bailout; the federal government takes over the foreclosed loans and then takes the properties and sells them off, pocketing the money. The governnment did not lose any money then and it will not lose money on this deal either because you can't take property with you, unlike a consumable such as gasoline.



    And health care, contrary to popular belief, is not a "right". That is part of the price of being free. You get to guide your ship wherever you wish.....


    So when you vote, do what I advise: Vote based on who you think most accurately reflects your individual values. Here, your choices simplify:

    One candidate is a real bona fide war hero. he is not out to take your guns. he has said he wants to leave the current tax cuts in place.

    The other guy has a history of not liking gun owners, and still hasn't come out with specifics about his tax cuts or how he is going to pay for it.

    The choice is simple....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    ma
    Posts
    2,366
    If I may be so bold to inject some comedy into this thread. I saw something very funny that's thread related but I'm not much of a computer guy so I don't know how to link to it. It's on U-tube called "Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem." You will LOL, can someone help with the link? Thanks

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    737
    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    If I may be so bold to inject some comedy into this thread. I saw something very funny that's thread related but I'm not much of a computer guy so I don't know how to link to it. It's on U-tube called "Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem." You will LOL, can someone help with the link? Thanks
    Here's a link: YouTube - Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem

    By the way, just FYI, if you copy-and-paste from the Address Bar into your post, the forum software will automatically create the link for you. Just C&P.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

  15. #30
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    Here's a link: YouTube - Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem

    By the way, just FYI, if you copy-and-paste from the Address Bar into your post, the forum software will automatically create the link for you. Just C&P.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.


    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors