Bowling For Columbine

Bowling For Columbine

This is a discussion on Bowling For Columbine within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I watched Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine tonite... Moore gets worse and worse with every passing year... you'd think a guy with his money could ...

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Thread: Bowling For Columbine

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Bowling For Columbine

    I watched Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine tonite... Moore gets worse and worse with every passing year... you'd think a guy with his money could buy some pants that fit and could fall into a shower every third day to wipe some of the grease off his pasty skin...

    Anyways, Moore did raise one valid question in this movie. He points out that in countries where getting a handgun is very difficult, like Japan or Germany, the homicide rate with handguns is almost nil. In America, we have thousands every year. Yet in Canada, there were only 190 in 2006. According to the film, there are approximately 7 million weapons in Canada, both handguns and long guns, and Canada has a long hunting and sport shooting tradition, yet murders by guns are a tiny fraction of gun murders in the US.

    Why do you think that is? Just a function of population (33 million versus 300 million)...? 7 million guns versus 200 million...?Are they just more "civil" than Americans? Canadians love our violent movies and shoot 'em up TV series, they play the same violent video games American kids play....

    To employ a very worn saw, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Why are Americans so much more inclined to do so?

    Moore suggests that nationalized medicine and other social programs blunt the sting of abject poverty... poorer people in Canada live better than in the US and the "desperation level" is lower north of the border.

    This is NOT an "anti" post... I love my new Sig, and it will turn up missing before I surrender it to the State. I WILL protect my home and family. I WILL defend myself from attack. If for no other reason, the Second Amendment grants me this right, and should war come to our soil, you can count on me to be part of the Southern Insurgency, one .45 ACP round at a time.

    But that question still gnaws at me... Any thoughts?
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"


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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Actually in an interview done a few years after that came out he said he completely missed the mark with that movie. He said he was wrong to target the firearms industry and knowing what he knows now he would have focused on the pharmaceutical industry! It seems a disproportionate number of these shooters are on certain antidepressants that seem to have some nasty side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Actually in an interview done a few years after that came out he said he completely missed the mark with that movie. He said he was wrong to target the firearms industry and knowing what he knows now he would have focused on the pharmaceutical industry!
    He's still an idiot. Just my opinion though.

    -Jeff-

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    He's still an idiot. Just my opinion though.

    -Jeff-
    I still wont waste a nickel to see any of his stuff, but I do give him credit for admitting when he is wrong. (at least he did it once)
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    But what about the original question...?

    Just because the questioner is an idiot does not necessarily invalidate the question...




    Waitaminnit... are we talking about Moore, or me...? LOL
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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    He is an idiot.
    The interesting thing about the movie however was that he spends a bunch of time showing what is going on and comes to the wrong conclusion. As I watched he made a very convincing case that it is really the media creating hype and notoriety around anything that happens bad related to guns. So he documents what is wrong, the media, and then concludes its the guns.
    One more thing, he is an idiot.

    As another example, take a look at England where they apparently have a huge Knife stabbing problem, if someone is mad enough they will find a way to take out their aggression.
    Last edited by JD; November 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 PM.
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    Member Array Barrett4x4's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about germany, but for japan it's a cultural thing. They are way more polite, courteous, and sincere towards each other than americans. The average police officer doesn't even carry a gun over there. People want to be cops over there because it's a safe, stable, well paying government job. They are just plain nicer than americans.

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    Gun crimes is just a sub catagory of violent crimes. So while gun crimes in the US are higher per captia than most countries (check out Russia), the violent crime per capita is generally on par with most industrialized countries. Remember a gun is just one tool of the criminal trade.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrett4x4 View Post
    I'm not sure about germany, but for japan it's a cultural thing. They are way more polite, courteous, and sincere towards each other than americans. The average police officer doesn't even carry a gun over there. People want to be cops over there because it's a safe, stable, well paying government job. They are just plain nicer than americans.
    Have you lived in Japan ???
    I was there 4 years (not in the military)
    I regard the Japanese as the most brutal and rude people AS A GROUP.
    Taking the subway or the bus is an experience in contact sports

    I agree with what you say when it is a one to one situation, as if you are invited at somebody's house.
    And as long as it is on the same social level.

    Cops: the crowd control methods they have would bring immediate lawsuits here; also,over 90% of the arrest result in a confession ??? They don't have a "revolving door" legal system >>> very few repeat offenders.

    Don't get me wrong, I had a few good friends over there and I do admire them as a people; I believe their culture is more advanced than ours, philosophically, but it is very different. Most American or European men who married a Japanese woman and stayed there, could not handle it very long.
    Again I am not saying it is bad, Just that the culture is so different from ours that it is very difficult to comprehend, if at all possible, without speaking the language.
    Their language is synthetic whereas ours is analytical and since thinking is based on language, their thinking process is backwards for us and ours is backwards for them.
    One of their great superiority is that they don't consider human life, including their own, to be as overly important as we do in our judeo-christian civilization. Is it good or bad ? I don't know; it's different.
    I guess "for the childreeennn" wouldn't work over there as well as here
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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    Member Array Barrett4x4's Avatar
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    I have not lived there, but my wife is from japan and I am of japanese descent. The subways can be quite an adventure and the women have to be careful about perverts.

    I think we're getting at the same thing though...the culture is just so different that it's impossible to compare the two for statistical analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    He's still an idiot. Just my opinion though.

    -Jeff-
    It's not just your opinion. It's an indisputable fact.
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    You can make the numbers say whatever you like.

    If you really want to see what kind of a difference gun control makes you can not just look at gun related crime. You must look at violent crime. And, you must not look at just the number of crimes, but must look at the number of crimes per capita.

    If guns are not available there will be less gun related crime, but there will still be violent crime. The lack of availability does not change the crime rate, just the weapon used.

    If you are killed by a knife, you still just as dead as you would have been had the BG used a gun.

    If you are robbed at knifepoint, you are still robbed.

    Then if you really want to muddy the waters, you can bring up the availability of firearms thru illegal means. This leaves the BG with guns while the rest of us loose ours.

    Just look at the UK. They still have a tremendous amount of violent crime regardless of their gun control. All they have done is to prevent the citizen from protecting himself/herself.

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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    The US crime rate in general is higher than Canada, guns or no guns. Mostly to to demographic reasons. If you consider the increase of gun ownership and general trend downward of gun crime, then you can see that much more is at play than just the presence of guns. If you notice the anti's use of suicide rates, they claim rightly that banning guns reduces the rate of suicide by gun, but they neglect to point out that the general rate of suicide by all means stays the same.

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    Well, if you go back, you'll notice that in general, homicide in the US has always been higher than other countries, for whatever reason. In fact, I think this extends to several categories of violent crime.

    Even in Britain, when handguns and such were available, the incidents of firearm-accompanied crime was still low compared with the US. Why? Not sure.

    However, I personally believe it really has a lot to do with demographics. It has nothing to do with guns being available in a legal form for law abiding citizens.

    The US is the leader in many areas. Most notably, culturally and socially. What does this mean? Not all good things. It also means that we serve as the capital of many organized crime networks, as well as the fact that we have several very large drug-related organizations operating in this country. This spawns more organized crime as well as violent gang activity.

    The US is extremely diverse, more so than many of those countries. While this is certainly a good thing, there's also several bad aspects to it. The old American attitudes of courtesy seem to have been run over for the most part, and now it seems we've let criminals and such overrun and take over our society and make us live in fear. Those of us on this board mostly choose to protect ourselves ethically and properly, while continuing to live our lives. Others decide that they will cower and believe the fear that politicians try to spread, and give government more and more power.

    Then they wonder why they aren't any safer and Mr. Politician keeps saying that they are in more and more danger "like never before."

    Anyway, point is - vast demographic and cultural differences. Other countries are changing as well, however. Just look at the surge in violent (including armed) crime in places like Britain in just the last decade.

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