This is a discussion on JFK assassination within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; 9.8
LBJ and his Texas Mafia boys or maybe CIA shot JFK. Mafia and government has worked together in the past before (Lucky Luciano and ...
December 5th, 2008 04:52 PM
LBJ and his Texas Mafia boys or maybe CIA shot JFK. Mafia and government has worked together in the past before (Lucky Luciano and the NYC Docks in WW2 for example) so maybe they worked together on this; either way LBJ was behind it.
I'm just waiting for the Psychiatrist's notes to be released on his deep, dark depression in LBJ's later years.
I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.
December 5th, 2008 05:42 PM
3rd grade, everyone thought it was a hunting accident till we got home. I remember watching the clip like a 100 times in the few days before his funeral which really cut into cartoon watching for a while.
10- I remember seeing a story on it and it stated that the parade route was changed at the last minute which brought it by the infamous location, the book depository where Oswald worked, which give him a shot out that window, also another reason that there weren’t more people there to witness the event.
Even as a kid I found it strange that a bullet fired from the rear and on a 45 degree or so angle would cause a man’s head that was traveling away from you and dropping toward the floor when hit, would (and I am quoting from all those showings of the assassination) cause it to go back and to the left the same as a large chunk of skull that flies off in the same direction.
The rifle wasn’t discovered on the first search, it was said to have been clean of prints, but one hand print was found after Oswald was killed. If I recall the local police did a print search first, and the feds fond them a day or two later.
When someone can explain those things to me I will be far more willing to change my mind.
December 5th, 2008 07:32 PM
You haven't watched the 'real' film in full have you..... few have. I would disagree with you totally. It blew the back of his head off, and the pieces of brain, the top back cap of his skull was on the trunk, etc... are all very obvious.
Originally Posted by TN_Mike
You can go thru many pieces of evidence... like how was there a bullet hole in the front windshield of the car and no bullet accounted for it with just Oswald. The same bullet they believe took a chunk of cement out of the curb in front of the car. Because that would mean, 4-5 shots were taken.
December 5th, 2008 09:04 PM
Jack Ruby was the most important link in the whole affair.
He eliminated the one weak link in the shooting, Oswald. He died of cancer related problems while in jail and ended the investigation.
"In 1979 a committee of the U.S. House of Representatives reexamined the evidence from 1963 and concluded that there had probably been two gunmen and that a conspiracy was likely. This committee noted that in the weeks preceding the assassination Ruby had made several phone calls to persons associated with organized crime. Other commentators have discounted the phone calls, as they were made before Kennedy's trip to Dallas and the route his motorcade would take were announced."
The plans were not yet announced but that doesn't mean they were not already made and known to people in the government.
December 5th, 2008 09:45 PM
All this thread demonstrates is the truth of the old saying that the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.
Carolyn Kennedy is likely to be a Senator from NY soon. Though she has stayed behind the scenes for many years, most of her life actually, one has to wonder why she would NOW be quiet, if there were truth (believable to her) about any of the conspiracies. What of her brother? What of the nieces and nephews who have served in Congress?
Ted Kennedy is still alive. I know, a lot of folks here can't stand him, so what? He is human. Don't you think a powerful dude like that, with so many years in The Senate, would have gotten to the bottom of what happened if there was a bottom to be gotten to?
These conspiracy theories make no sense.
They only work if you believe that many people were involved and even though many were involved, the secret was somehow kept from the Kennedy family; or the family was somehow scared into silence--ALL OF THEM to the present day. Ridiculous!!!!
December 5th, 2008 10:08 PM
Keeping secrets is RIDICULOUS...???
There were more than 150,000 people that pretty much vanished from society for a period of several years back in the 40's. No not alien abductions, they were employed on the Manhattan project.
I think that is only one example of the government's ability to keep things hush hush when they really want it to be kept under wraps.
December 6th, 2008 01:19 AM
I respect Mas Ayoob very much but, the fact that the round fired by Oswald that passed through 2 people and 11 inches of bone reacted so very differently than the one that struck a relatively soft target (Kennedy's skull) pretty much assures us that they were fired from different guns. The autopsy that was done on the President found tiny balls of what had been molten led on the inside of his skull. That certainly would not happen from a full metal jacket round from Oswald's rifle.
Originally Posted by Benthic
December 6th, 2008 05:39 AM
I would need to say 0 cause i dont see anywhere that one person whom would know said that he did not act alone. granted i was not alive at the time but that is the feeling i get from reading about it.
December 6th, 2008 10:39 AM
I'm sure that few of the people who worked on the Manhattan Project had a clue what they were doing. And, the secret needed to be kept for only a short time period, after which everyone involved became famous.
Originally Posted by boscobeans
What we are talking about with the Kennedy assassination is an alleged conspiracy of government officials with a cover up and kept secret lasting decades. We are talking about numerous living relatives and friends, all in powerful positions, and all insisting it was a lone gunman.
Were there a shred of credible evidence it was anything else, it would have come out, it would have been brought out not by conspiracy theorists but by family members and friends.
And actually, the government is darned bad at keeping things secret anyway. You know, all those newspaper stories with a leak about this and a leak about that. How come if this was some government conspiracy there were no leaks? How come there were no whistle blowers?
It is easy to manufacture conspiracy theories, all it takes is a fertile imagination and little regard for careful checking of the facts. Once the "new truth" gets out, it falls on willing ears. Human nature. That is how lots of trouble has happened in this world.
December 6th, 2008 10:51 AM
How do you know that the Government doesn't intentionally "leak" bits of misinformation to steer perception in a different direction?
You know, all those newspaper stories with a leak about this and a leak about that.
How come if this was some government conspiracy there were no leaks
Limited amount of people in on it...
Professionals that can keep their mouth shut...
People that have been coerced into saying nothing...
People involved are dead.
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December 6th, 2008 12:06 PM
Only a few knew about it ? There were over 6000 scientists invilved with the project.
Did the Greenbriar Hotel bomb shelter for Washington's elite ever leak out until 1992?
It began construction during the cold war in 1957 and remained a secret until it was ALLOWED to be leaked in 1992. 35 years under a veil of secrecy.. Not bad.
December 6th, 2008 01:10 PM
This only explains that there was some success with compartmentalizing tasks so no individual could see the big picture. Also, amazingly, ALL of Congress knew about it and kept their mouths shut for their own wellbeing in the event of an attack. I do concede this is an interesting example of an exception to part of what I was suggesting.
Originally Posted by boscobeans
With re. to the assassination we have to keep in mind that the brother of the assassinated individual was the Attorney General. For the conspiracy theorists to be correct we have to believe that somehow he lacked the capacity to get at the truth from a position of power. That Edward later lacked the ability to get at the truth. And also believe that there was something o be gained by members of Congress, or the Warren Commission from hiding the truth. It just doesn't add up.
December 6th, 2008 04:38 PM
I have removed several "off topic" posts from this thread (and one that responded to one of the "off topic" posts). I caution others not to use this thread as an opportunity to inject your favorite conspiracy. A few more and the whole thread will be removed.....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
December 6th, 2008 07:16 PM
By Eric Bland
updated 6:24 p.m. ET, Thurs., Nov. 13, 2008
A team of experts assembled by the Discovery Channel has recreated the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy. Using modern blood spatter analysis, new artificial human body surrogates, and 3-D computer simulations, the team determined that the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository was the most likely origin of the shot that killed the 35th president of the United States.
"The question we were trying to answer is, given the spatter evidence in a vehicle, and knowing an individual was sitting at a particular location, is there something we could use to determine where the shot originated?" said Steve Schliebe, a blood spatter and trace evidence specialist with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, who was part of the special investigation.
While blood spatter analysis existed in the 1960s, modern innovations have greatly improved its accuracy and the amount of information that can be gleaned from drops of blood.
"A lot of this is still fairly new, from the last 10 to 15 years," said Bevel. "Before that we thought we knew what was going on, but because of innovations like high-speed photography we have a much better appreciation of what is actually taking place."
On Nov. 22, 1963, at 12:30 p.m. Central time, President John F. Kennedy was shot twice while traveling in his limousine through Dallas, Texas. The first shot entered Kennedy's back and exited out of his throat. A second shot entered the left side of Kennedy's head and exited out the right side, spraying a nearby officer agent and the car's interior with bodily material. Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. at Parkland Hosptial.
Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested an hour and twenty minutes after the shooting. Widely believed to have fired the shots that killed Kennedy, Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby before he could be brought to trial.
Conspiracy theories abound on the number of shots fired, the number of shooters, and the location and identity of the shooter(s). The goal of Discovery Channel's Nov. 16th special, "JFK: Inside the Target Car," was to explore the theories and determine where the shots most likely came from using modern forensic science.
A mock-up of the Dallas, Texas crime scene was set up, including the depository, the "grassy knoll," and other nearby landmarks. Artificial surrogates of Kennedy were placed in a car. Sharpshooters then shot the surrogates from the model depository, the grassy knoll, and four other plausible locations.
Schliebe, along with Tom Bevel, an independent expert forensic investigator, were brought in to examine the simulated crime scene. Both scientists had no idea what the experiment was for or that it was a reenactment of the JFK assassination.
The two experts found a simulated gunshot would to the head that closely matched the wound Kennedy suffered. Most of the simulated body material had spattered forward into the car, consistent with a shot that entered the back of the head and exited toward the front. There was some back-spatter — material that flew back in the opposite direction of the bullet's trajectory — but not much.
The general lack of back spatter and the preponderance of spatter in another direction are two of the clues, among others, that the investigators used to pinpoint the origin of the shots.
"After Tom and I looked at the scene, we pointed up and back away from the vehicle," said Schliebe. "Apparently that lined up perfectly with where the sharpshooter had hit the model head."
Along with advances in blood spatter analysis, another advantage modern forensic experts have is simulated body parts.
The team used some of the most advanced artificial human heads in the world for the ballistic tests. Made from a proprietary mixture by Australia-based Adelaide T&E Systems, the heads have three different materials which simulate the brain, skull and external soft tissue (skin) — that together respond to the trauma the same way a human head would.
The simulated brain material was made from a pig-skin-derived gelatin, dyed green. The skull surrogate is made from a special vinyl ester resin filled with calcium and proprietary fibers. The artificial skin uses a polyurethane and plasticizers to mimic human skin's physical properties. The head was even custom-fitted, based on Kennedy's hat size.
"The heads they used were quite interesting," said Bevel. "They were considerably more sophisticated than anything I've seen before."
In addition to the physical environment, a virtual environment was also set up. A team from Los Angeles-based Creative Differences went to the original Dallas crime scene and took precise measurements of all the angles, distances, wind speed and directions, etc., in the area to create a 3-D model of the crime scene.
To animate it, the team looked at a video of the assassination filmed by Abraham Zapruder. The Zapruder film, as it's called, is generally believed to be the most complete video of the shooting because of its clear view of the motorcade and the height it was shot from.
Only two of the 486 Zapruder frames actually show Kennedy being shot. Computer graphics expert Doug Martin highlighted the red parts of the frames and the blood resulting from the wound, and plotted them onto the computer simulation to see where the fatal shot came from.
"We might never know if Oswald pulled the trigger, but when you look at the wind pattern, the spread of the debris, the angles and distances involved, it's consistent with a shot from the sixth floor depository," said Martin.
This kind of computer analysis has only been available for about five years, says Martin. He expects criminologists will continue to make use of 3-D crime scene simulations to help reconstruct events and gather evidence a 2-D picture alone can't reveal.
"I think this is the wave of the future," said Martin. "If we had this technology back in the '60s, I think it would have put a lot of the conspiracy theories to rest."
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
December 7th, 2008 09:38 PM
i say it was the fasion industry that killed keneddy.
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
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