First Gran Torino...Now Defiance...

First Gran Torino...Now Defiance...

This is a discussion on First Gran Torino...Now Defiance... within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Saw it last week. Some similarities in a way to Gran Torino if you really stretch it. My first thought is how insulated some of ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    First Gran Torino...Now Defiance...

    Saw it last week. Some similarities in a way to Gran Torino if you really stretch it. My first thought is how insulated some of our youth is from the reality of history and what a sad situation the rewriting of actual events causes in the school systems. Heck, my 11 year old son came home feeling guilt over Hiroshima after reading the version in a school "history" book. He has a different outlook on the event after I recounted some of my own dad's stories from the Pacific theater and actually running missions over Japan in a B29 based on Tinian. Man's inhumanity to man... yeah it really exists and everybody needs to be aware.


  2. #2
    njr
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    My Great Uncle Was One of Them...

    yeah, I'm planning on seeing Defiance too.

    Like the characters in the movie, most of my family in Belarus was killed by the Einsatzgruppen. However, my great uncle escaped in the first ghetto uprising (the town was Neshwicz), joined the Jewish Partisans, who later became attached to the Red Army. Never knew what happened to him- KIA? or evacuated to Palestine/Israel? Or lived the rest of his life in Belarus?

    The part that the movies and schools don't teach you is that most of the Jews in that time were communists, and as such were left to die by the western "democracies"- see Isaac Deutscher, The Non Jewish Jew.

    Also, I ended up living in Japan and befriending a number of folks, incl survivors of the U.S. atomic bombings. There was no real military reason for them, aside from intimidating the Soviet Union from supporting a Japan on the brink of revolution. Truman should've been extradited to stand trial with Tojo.

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    The dropping of the atomic bomb probably saved lives

    "Also, I ended up living in Japan and befriending a number of folks, incl survivors of the U.S. atomic bombings. There was no real military reason for them, aside from intimidating the Soviet Union from supporting a Japan on the brink of revolution. Truman should've been extradited to stand trial with Tojo.[/QUOTE]

    While I am not a historian I am an avid reader. I have read many books on American history from the revolution to the present. I have read a good share of books about WWII.

    The expected American casualties were estimated to be between 250,000 and one million. The number of Japanese civilian casualties could have been in the millions.

    President Truman made a tough call but in the long run many lives were probably saved.
    "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."
    Robert Heinlein

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    I saw defiance and It was pretty good,the movie was based on a true story and how a people pushed to the point of either fight or die chose to fight and live.A really feel good movie and due to some violent scenes got an adult rating but has no nudity or cussing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    Member Array rmxer85's Avatar
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    + 1 for Defiance

    great movie, and I'm pretty hard to impress.
    I thoroughly disapprove of duels.
    If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand
    and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
    -Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Growing up on military bases in Japan, I had an interesting insight to WWII history. It wasn't uncommon for work crews to come across unexploded WWII ordinance when digging at constructions sites. Every year during elementary school, folks would come around and instruct the kids on what to do if they find any old WWII munitions.

    -JT

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    njr
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    yeesh. Hope noone lost a limb, their life.

    Did you ever go to the Fertility Fest in Tagata, near Nagoya? That one was near a military base, and the locals re-created the fest for them and the tourists. Lots of fun- the giant sacred wooden penis, the giant vat of sake as a symbol of the sacred ejaculation, the giant stone vagina in the temple down the road...TMI probably, I know, but pretty hilarious none the less...




    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    Growing up on military bases in Japan, I had an interesting insight to WWII history. It wasn't uncommon for work crews to come across unexploded WWII ordinance when digging at constructions sites. Every year during elementary school, folks would come around and instruct the kids on what to do if they find any old WWII munitions.

    -JT

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    njr
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    yeah, there's a big debate on this, one which I don't want to have on line, seeing as election season is gearing up for those of us in the IL Green Party, I just got nominated for steward at work, and I'm sure there are other things....

    Anyway, I side more with Alperovitz, Halliday as well as a couple of others I forget. They point out that the country itself was devastated, the majority faction in the gov was sending cables for peace terms earlier in the year through third and fourth countries. The country really wasn't in shape to fight, morale was low. Plus, the US could've broadcast their bomb tests and shown the Japanese that.

    The Soviet Union had tremendous prestige and there was a general feeling among workers in Europe and Asia that capitalism had been the instigator in the war. Plus the resistance to fascism was mainly Communist Party in most countries. Many countries in west and southern Eur almost had revos, were it not for U.S. military intervention. Japan too. China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Yugoslavia, did of course overthrow capitalism, so the U.S. gov was tremendously worried about the same happening in Japan. Thus the pre-emptive action.

    As a side note, my father went into the army right before the end of the war and he would have been with an invading force. He is convinced that he would have died, and was happy when the bombs were dropped. He went on to be a photographer for the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. He just recently donated the negatives of the film he took while over there to the Japanese Diet.



    While I am not a historian I am an avid reader. I have read many books on American history from the revolution to the present. I have read a good share of books about WWII.

    The expected American casualties were estimated to be between 250,000 and one million. The number of Japanese civilian casualties could have been in the millions.

    President Truman made a tough call but in the long run many lives were probably saved.[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Saint77's Avatar
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    I saw Defiance last Friday, It was a great movie, and I teared up a bit. My grandfather, and his two brothers came from that area to the US in the mid 30s, but they left many there. The dynamic in the movie, the way the brothers talked, acted, spoke to one another, etc, the way all the people were, reminded me very much of my grandfather and his brothers, and all their families. The following Sunday, the last of them passed on at 96. He was a WW2 vet with the US Air Force. It was kinda odd how that happened around the same time that I saw that movie.

    The unfortunate thing about Hollywood is, the message sent by these great movies gets all swallowed up in the vanity of the award shows, and all that BS.

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    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Anyway, I side more with Alperovitz, Halliday as well as a couple of others I forget. They point out that the country itself was devastated, the majority faction in the gov was sending cables for peace terms earlier in the year through third and fourth countries. The country really wasn't in shape to fight, morale was low. Plus, the US could've broadcast their bomb tests and shown the Japanese that.

    [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

    Then why did it take two?
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

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    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    It's called revisionists history where events are softened to not hurt the feelings of the latter generations that followed.Examples Germans and Japanese.
    America should be proud of her history not apologize for it because we protected our country and the world for almost 100 years successfully.Again ,this has been allowed to happen at the school level because the nuclear family is the minority and the single mother or blended family is the norm.That's why it's so important parents become involved at schools their kids go to because the administration feels the parents have NO RIGHTS !
    that was my experience when my kids went through.Remember this starts at school and kids believe anything teacher says so it's imperative Mom or Dad
    gets to them before teacher and explain what revisionist history is.Sorry for rant because this gets my goat !Next thing they will blame former President Bush for all the bad weather !

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