More Taxes?

More Taxes?

This is a discussion on More Taxes? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; BOSTON - A tentative plan to overhaul Massachusetts' transportation system by using GPS chips to charge motorists a quarter-cent for every mile behind the wheel ...

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Thread: More Taxes?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    More Taxes?

    BOSTON - A tentative plan to overhaul Massachusetts' transportation system by using GPS chips to charge motorists a quarter-cent for every mile behind the wheel has angered some drivers.

    "It's outrageous, it's kind of Orwellian, Big Brotherish," said Sen. Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, who drafted legislation last week to prohibit the practice. "You'd need a whole new department of cronies just to keep track of it."

    But a "Vehicle Miles Traveled" program like the one the governor may unveil this week has already been tested with positive results in Oregon.

    Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island, as well as the federal government, also are talking about such programs. And in North Carolina, a panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

    "The Big Brother issue was identified during the first meeting of the task force that developed our program," said Jim Whitty, who oversees innovation projects for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Everything we did from that point forward, even though we used electronics, was to eliminate those concerns."

    A draft overhaul transport plan prepared for Gov. Deval Patrick says implementing a Vehicle Miles Traveled system to replace the gas tax makes sense. "A user-based system, collected electronically, is a fair way to pay for our transportation needs in the future," it says.

    Patrick, who had yet to settle on any of the ideas contained in the draft, told reporters last week, "I like any idea that is faster, cheaper, simpler."

    The idea behind the program is simple: As cars become more fuel efficient or powered by electricity, gas tax revenues decline. Yet the cost of building and maintaining roads and bridges is increasing. A state could cover that gap by charging drivers precisely for the mileage their vehicles put on public roads.

    "There needs to be a new way of thinking about, `How do we pay for all of this?'" said Richard Dimino, president of A Better City, a business-friendly group that considers transportation issues.

    "One of the ways is thinking about the automobile like a utility: When we turn on our automobile and use it, we would be charged like we do when we turn on the lights and we start using electricity."

    In Oregon, the state paid volunteers who let the transportation department install GPS receivers in 300 vehicles. The device did not transmit a signal which would allow real-time tracking of a driver's movements but instead passively received satellite pings telling the receiver where it was in terms of latitude and longitude coordinates.

    The state used those coordinates to determine when the vehicle was driving both within Oregon and outside the state. And it measured the respective distances through a connection with the vehicle's odometer.

    When a driver pulled into a predetermined service station, the pump linked electronically with the receiver, downloaded the number of miles driven in Oregon and then charged the driver a fee based on the distance. The gas tax they would have paid was reduced by the amount of the user fee. Drivers continued to be charged gas tax for miles driven outside Oregon.

    Under such systems, one of which is already used in London, drivers are charged more for entering a crowded area during rush hour than off-peak periods.

    "What the mileage charge does, if it's structured properly, is simply charge for the basic responsibility of people to pay for the amount of wear they put on the state's roads," said Whitty, whose state is still considering the mechanics of broadening the program.

    I guess we don't pay enough taxes as it is,We are taxed to death as it is,we are taxed on money we make,then on money we spend,Phone taxes,usage taxes,gas taxes,mortgage taxes,Insurance taxes.We pay taxes to support programs to tax us.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .


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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Man here in the East we already pay user taxes in the form of tolls for a ******* lot of the roads we drive on. This is a bunch of crap, I don't care what they do in London.

    .
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    Viva La Revolution!
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Microchip anyone?

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    "Tax Man" (Beatles)......."If you take a walk I'll tax your feet"..........Not too far off here.

    Having lived with TX Tolltags the whole concept doesn't really bother me, but that was voluntary.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

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    Everyone will flame me for saying this, but..... you have to pay for the roads somehow. This makes a lot of sense to me.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Everyone will flame me for saying this, but..... you have to pay for the roads somehow. This makes a lot of sense to me.
    Yeah it's called the taxes they already stole from us and subsequently squandered. They should all be strung up.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I guess we don't pay enough taxes as it is,We are taxed to death as it is,we are taxed on money we make,then on money we spend,Phone taxes,usage taxes,gas taxes,mortgage taxes,Insurance taxes.We pay taxes to support programs to tax us.
    Got a link for this one?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Everyone will flame me for saying this, but..... you have to pay for the roads somehow. This makes a lot of sense to me.
    I dont have a problem with a small tax on fuel, vehicle registration taxes are huge... there is plenty of money to pay for the roads. But as PackinNova pointed out, it is mis managed and squandered.

    Here is just one small example. Last week, I went to register my 4x8 dirt bike trailer. The tag etc. was $16.00- No big deal. But, there was a "handling fee" of $6.00 and the tax on the sale was $26.00. And thats low compared to a lot of areas.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
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    To me, it makes sense only if they totally eliminate the current gas tax and replace it with the proposed system. But you can bet that they will have both taxes, so once again it will be a tax on a tax.

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    I do agree with you about taxes being mis managed, and miss used. But if they are willing to get rid of the fuel tax to create this mileage tax, perhaps that's better. As far as those registration taxes you payed SIXTO, that's outrageous, they are nothing like that here. Where are you?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Everyone will flame me for saying this, but..... you have to pay for the roads somehow. This makes a lot of sense to me.
    Agreed, roads are one of the few things the government provides that is absolutely beneficial to the General Wellfare.

    That said government revenue continue to increase; historically we grow as an economy so all of the revenues tied to sales or income grow proportionally yet some states increase the percentage of their sales tax.

    About a year ago where I live they raised the assesment for school taxes which is based on property value which had been rising for some time with lots of property transfer. The school board cited that they had not had an increase in some years; I cried foul (and lost) as they get an increase every time a property changed hands at a new higher value.

    So I have to disagree with the point that we have to pay for roads somehow, that somehow ought to be paid by the general fund. I base this on the premise that roads are a basic necessity supplied by the government for the General Welfare of all citizens and therefore should not be subject to a user based tax. For those who cry they don't own a car etc. they do have goods and services brought to them or to some distribution point via the road network. I closing it is nearly crimminal for any goverment entity to feel entitled to user base taxes for road use, I will include in this statement the gas and toll taxes that are already in place.


    Regards,
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Got a link for this one?

    www.irs.gov



    Cheers
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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    Will those using public transportation be taxed also? The way I see it they are also using the roads and should be taxed accordingly. Also the county should be taxed (I know, fat chance) and perhaps even worse than regular folks. A public bus, police cars on patrol, etc spend more time using those roads than the average driver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Everyone will flame me for saying this, but..... you have to pay for the roads somehow. This makes a lot of sense to me.
    Where is the money going with the current gas tax in Massachussetts? Will they remove the gas tax and replace it with the per mile tax or will this be in addition to the existing gas taxes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Where are you?
    Ohio.


    I dont have a problem paying a tax for infrastructure... somebody has to pay for it. I do have a huge problem with somebody tracking where I go and when.
    I'll pay the tax on the fuel I burn or the car I buy, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give anybody a "blank check" on the tax I will be forced to pay.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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