Ammunition shortages, possible causes?

This is a discussion on Ammunition shortages, possible causes? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I have no doubt that ammunition demand has increased because people have concerns about future anti-firearm legislation, the economy, and the increase in firearm purchases. ...

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Thread: Ammunition shortages, possible causes?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Ammunition shortages, possible causes?

    I have no doubt that ammunition demand has increased because people have concerns about future anti-firearm legislation, the economy, and the increase in firearm purchases. It could be sound judgement or panic, take your pick, not the point I considering. It is just a given that consumer demand has increased. However...

    I was thinking, after so many years of conflict, could part of the supply issue be due to military stockpiles being used up?

    With the troubles with the world economy (and possible social unrest) could all governments (not just ours) be stock stockpiling ammunition?

    Could economic conditions have made the manfacturing process more difficult (even though demand has increase)?
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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I was thinking, after so many years of conflict, could part of the supply issue be due to military stockpiles being used up?

    With the troubles with the world economy (and possible social unrest) could all governments (not just ours) be stock stockpiling ammunition?

    Could economic conditions have made the manfacturing process more difficult (even though demand has increase)?
    I do not know any military that stockpiles .40S&W.
    That being said your fist question. defanate no.
    And that means that question 2 is also a no.

    the price of copper and lead has risen, but not enough to cause this.
    this is election related only.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrenke View Post
    I do not know any military that stockpiles .40S&W...That being said your fist question. defanate no.
    ...
    Ya, but the demand for some rounds would / could effect production of other rounds. With that said, I understand the rest of your post, you believe it is consumer demand (not the other issues).
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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    With that said, I understand the rest of your post, you believe it is consumer demand (not the other issues).
    Directly on point.
    even IF the demand stayed the same, FMJ 223 is fairly quick to produce. and producing that does not run on the same factory line as 300 win mag (i think). this is still cautous fear causing the run on ammo. people are fearfull that Mr O will do what he has stated he wants to do. Serial numbers on every bullet. major expence but we should "do it for the children".
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

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    Member Array REDTAIL's Avatar
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    There's a shortage of primers too

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    I spoke to a local gun shop about this issue, and he said that he believes that ammunition manufacturers have actually limited shipments. He based this on the talk he had w/a cousin who works for Federal who told him that they were "waiting for the tax increase to go into effect before feeding the demand".
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Ammo supply dries up, and then firearms supply dries up. You know where this is heading now don't you? I really don't see things turning around soon. There's more than one way to skin a cat. We just need to know who's doing the skinning.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Part of it is military demand. As I understand it while he was President Bill Clinton shut down the military's small arms ammunition production except for Lake City. Now that demand has outstripped their production capacity Federal and Winchester are producing under contract. Black Hills is also providing sniper ammo as fast as they can turn it out and still maintain their rigid quality control.
    On top of that we not only have the cost of raw materials going up over the last several years, but also look at energy costs. Transporting the raw materials to the production facilities, processing them, then transporting the finished product. How much lead were people looking to haul when Diesel was $4.95 a gallon? And now we have the idiot legislators wanting serial numbers on bullets!
    So we have increased demand on two fronts, and higher production costs. I am curious what supply/demand was a year ago. If the manufacturers were scaling back or shifting assets to supply military contracts, and then demand dropped because of the increased prices from the cost of materials going up, and then we see a post election demand spike, it could be a while before production catches up with demand.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    I'd be willing to bet a good part of the ammo demand is coming from new gun purchases and people, breaking-in and shooting the new guns for practice.
    With 4 handguns purchased in the last 3 months, I'm willing to step up and share part of the blame for .22lr, .38 spsecial, .357 Mangum and .45ACP being in short supply:smile
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    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrenke View Post
    Directly on point.
    even IF the demand stayed the same, FMJ 223 is fairly quick to produce. and producing that does not run on the same factory line as 300 win mag (i think). this is still cautous fear causing the run on ammo. people are fearfull that Mr O will do what he has stated he wants to do. Serial numbers on every bullet. major expence but we should "do it for the children".
    Actually, yea they do. Firearms manufacturers obviously will have dedicated lines for high volume calibers, but less popular calibers they switch around and manufacture a certain number of lots and then switch to the next.

    A few years back there was an interview with several execs of different manufacturers, they explained their processes and for a while they had switched nearly all of their lines to manufacture for the military to help meet contracts. At that time, they said that military demand did account for some lack of supply, but the next upcoming bump in pricing was cost in materials.

    Now we have run through that course, I suspect that we are coming back to a good old supply and demand issue, not to mention that we have all ready proven that we are willing to pay the current prices.

    However, I do see things catching up in my area. Both local Wally Worlds have ammo in stock.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

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    I wonder if anyone here has some real-world knowledge about the financial status of the ammo makers. Are they price gouging? Are they unable to get financing to expand production? Are they unable to get raw materials either because of the present loan crisis or raw materials shortage?

    Are there any breakthrough technologies on the horizon which would get lead out of the lead? Or, copper out of the brass (Yes, Blazer, but are there others?)

    I think we here mostly (if not entirely) are not in a position to fully know the factors involved. I tried to get a bathroom remodeled last year. A certain tile was ordered and pre-paid, but the manufacturer could not find a trucker for the order--when diesel was at its all time high. Ammo, like tile, is heavy stuff. Are there new shipping costs and related problems?

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    Everything is a factor, the biggest one being supply and demand.That is responsible for most of it. If a gun dealer has an AR-15 that he paid 600 bucks for last year and he thinks he can sell it for 1200 today and some one will pay it, that is what he will do.

    The ammo manufacturers gear up for specific calibers at specific time frames. They may run a caliber for a few weeks, then they retool and start another. Of course, the more popular the caliber, the longer the run. What you are buying now, is last years ammo. When its gone, its gone. If the ammo manufacturers don't specifically retool for that caliber, then it will be awhile until you start seeing it on the shelves again. All they can do is operate off of past history. They have no crystal ball and cannot foresee the future.

    At the same time, the cost of metals went up, way up. Naturally, this is reflected in the cost of manufacture, since it costs more to make, it will cost you more to buy.
    Add the "panic" factor into that, and its anybodies guess as to what price to pay.

    There is some difference in location too. Some places ammo will be cheaper than others just because of the reduced cost in shipping. Since we have a Remington Ammo plant here, it will be cheaper here than in Montana or Alaska because it costs more to ship it.

    So, with a bit of uncertainty about an administration that is having a hard time finding anyone that can pass scrutiny and be affirmed because of tax evasion, with a President that has a well known track record of being extremely anti-ammo or anti-gun,people are finally waking up and realizing that he really is serious about changing America.
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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Every company that makes anything to do with firearms and ammunition is cranking out every bit of product possible. There is no way any of them will hire more people or invest in more equipement given the insanity in Washington. We are all (customers, retailers, and wholesalers) involved in a bidding war for that limited amount of product trying to meet an insatiable demand.
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    Cautious fear is a good way to put it. I was in Real Estate when the buying Frenzy took place. Not to different from what we are experiencing in the gun industry. What you are seeing is the frenzy. When it stops there will be tons of pocket guns we can buy for cheap.(can't wait) Obviously pending what happens with some of these proposed bills. All things that go up will come down. Ask wall street.

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    suggest going to this post

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ortages-2.html

    some good info on the same topic
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