I love Thomas Jefferson

This is a discussion on I love Thomas Jefferson within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Not exactly 2A, but certainly related. "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, ...

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Thread: I love Thomas Jefferson

  1. #1
    Member Array j21blackjack's Avatar
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    I love Thomas Jefferson

    Not exactly 2A, but certainly related.

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
    The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
    wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
    they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is
    lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what
    country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from
    time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let
    them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon
    and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two?
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood
    of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

    Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the
    Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

    November 13, 1787, letter to William S. Smith, quoted in Padover's
    Jefferson On Democracy, ed., 1939

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    I totally concur with Thomas Jefferson.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    Member Array WileyP's Avatar
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    Here are a few more little snips from that brilliant mind:

    "...all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."

    "Be prepared- Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance."

    "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

    ...all attributed to Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array Klaatu's Avatar
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    Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining

    Can you provide a source for that? I have heard it quoted before and no one has ever been able to provide me a verifiable source. I have read a fair amount about Thomas Jefferson and I question whether he would have said such a thing. As much as Christians of today want to believe that the God Jefferson spoke of and mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is the same as their God, it just is not so. Jefferson frequently expressed open contempt for Christianity, The Bible, any church and its followers. There is a growing cottage industry of people trying to rewrite history to make Jefferson appear otherwise, but such folk are Christian Apologists, not credible Historians.

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    Member Array WileyP's Avatar
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    LOL! You would pick the one I do not have a reference for!

    As for his apparent disdain for religion and contempt for those that followed one, there seems to be much discussion and little agreement among historians on that matter. I believe he once stated "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology" (another one for which I have no source). He did, however, use references thereto when it suited his point or the people whom he was addressing:

    "I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Jefferson discussing the fight over the establishment of one form of Christianity in the U.S. to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800. Peterson, Merrill, ed. Jefferson: Writings. New York: Literary Classics of the U.S.: Distributed to the trade in the U.S. and Canada by the Viking Press, c1984, p. 1082.)

    "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." (Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia
    Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227)

    "The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the
    hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." (Thomas
    Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. Papers, 1:135)

    "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have
    removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the
    people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are
    not to be violated but with His wrath?" (Thomas Jefferson: Notes
    on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227)

    As I am sure you are aware, Thomas Jefferson was not the sole Founding Father to voice contempt toward organized religion. Many of the brilliant minds that established the primary philosophies of the new nation were similarly inclined.

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    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WileyP View Post
    As I am sure you are aware, Thomas Jefferson was not the sole Founding Father to voice contempt toward organized religion. Many of the brilliant minds that established the primary philosophies of the new nation were similarly inclined.
    That right there is the one of the major points that many people on all sides of the christian/anti christian argument tend to forget because it works against all of their arguments.

    They also forget, that many of the original immigrants were escaping various religious persecutions and/or thought they were moving to the new world because it was "God's will" to start a new community fashioned in the way that God sent to them in a "vision".

    Consequently, our original colonies actually represented various "religous camps" with differing views on God and how to worship God. When our country was formed, this was a major consideration in order to accomodate the colonies. Also the religious persecutions that had taken place in Britain and Europe were still fresh and remembered, and our founders knew of the dangers of the state establishing one religion to be superior over all others.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Noah didn't build the ark when it was raining.

    If Noah had to build the ark in 2006, his story may have gone something like this:

    And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In one year, I am going to make it rain, and the rain shall not stop until it submerges the entire earth and all living flesh is destroyed. Because of this, I want you to save the righteous people and two of every living species on earth. Therefore, I am commanding you to build an Ark."

    In a flash of lightning, God delivered the specifications for an Ark. Daunted by this task, but respectful of God's wishes, Noah took the plans and agreed to build the Ark. "Remember," said the Lord, "you must complete and fill the Ark in one year's time."

    Exactly one year later, fierce storm clouds covered the earth and all the seas of the earth went into turmoil. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard weeping.

    "Noah!" He shouted. "Where is the Ark?"

    "Lord, please forgive me, " cried Noah. "I did my best, but there were big problems.

    "First I had to get a permit for construction, and your plans did not meet the building codes. I had to hire an engineering firm and redraw the plans.

    "Then I got into a fight with OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a sprinkler system and approved floatation devices.

    "Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission.

    "Then I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl. I finally convinced the U.S. Forest Service that I really needed the wood to save the owls. However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won't let me take the two owls.

    "The carpenters formed a union and went on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or hammer. Now I have 16 carpenters on the Ark but still no owls.

    "When I started rounding up the other animals, an animal rights group sued me. They objected to me taking only two of each kind aboard. This suit is pending.

    "Meanwhile, the EPA notified me that I could not complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take very kindly to the idea.

    "Then the Army Corps of Engineers demanded a map of the proposed flood plain. I sent them a globe.

    "Right now, I am trying to resolve a complaint filed by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that I am practicing discrimination by not taking atheists aboard.

    "The IRS has seized my assets, claiming that I'm building the Ark in preparation to flee the country to avoid paying the state some kind of user tax that I owe them and that I failed to register the Ark as a 'recreational water craft.'

    "And finally, the ACLU got the courts to issue an injunction against further construction of the Ark, saying that since God is flooding the Earth, it's a religious event, and therefore unconstitutional.

    "I really don't think I can finish the Ark for another five or six years."

    Noah waited.

    The sky began to clear, the sun began to shine, and the seas began to calm. A rainbow arced across the sky.

    Noah looked up hopefully. "You mean you're not going to destroy the earth, Lord?"

    "No," He said sadly. "I don't have to. The government already has."

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    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    I really enjoy reading Jefferson's quotes, and there are plenty.

    I've read that paragraph you posted before but didn't notice until now, one word stood out:

    "... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?"

    Rulers? Jefferson always seemed to be very particular about his language and terms. I find it odd that he didn't write "elected officials" or even "leaders", but chose to write "rulers".

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    Rather than have this turn to a religious debate and get the thread closed , lets keep on topic .
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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