Prep for econ downturn

Prep for econ downturn

This is a discussion on Prep for econ downturn within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; At least some folks are preparing for college expenses!...

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Thread: Prep for econ downturn

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Prep for econ downturn

    At least some folks are preparing for college expenses!
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    There is a ring of truth in that cartoon.

    The plus side is that after this thing really hits college tuition costs will be forced down as colleges need to compete for students.
    College (in general) will cost less.
    The minus side is that most average families will not have any extra money at all to spend on tuition after they get monetarily raped by this administration.
    Also there will not be many suitable "part time" jobs available for kids who want to go to school and also work to help pay their tuition costs.
    It's going to be an extremely tough situation for the average American Joe & Family.

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    Our education system is a scam. Why is it you need a 40K degree to work a 20K a year job?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    I'm with Timmy

    Anyone know how tuition today compares with tuition in, say, the '50's? After being adjusted for inflation, average household incomes, and the like?

    My theory, is that adjusted for the times, college is probably not any less affordable than it was 50 years ago. I don't understand the entitlement mentality that says everyone has the right to go to college when there are so many people that go out and earn it. If everyone could "afford" college then it's value wouldn't be any better than High School and I believe that many more students would use it as an excuse to avoid going out into the real world and start earning a living. When people have to work hard and earn something, they appreciate it and use it to the fullest.

    Then we have a mentality in this society that says you will never amount to anything if you don't go to college. A father who worked in a factory rutinely tells his children he wants them to have it better, they need to go to college. Instead, he should display pride at the hard work he did every day. Teaching them that a pay check is honorable no matter how much, as long as it's earned whether you wear a blue shirt or a white collar.

    More kids need to realize that a blue collar job is honorable and can be lucrative. In my mid 20's, I was already making over $50k a year working in factories and I didn't have a dime of college debt to pay or years of lost time to make up for.

    I begin to wonder why anyone would want to go to college these days anyway. Besides the hard work, lost time, and debt; if you do "make it" we'll just take more of it away from you in taxes and give it to those who weren't willing to make the sacrafices you made.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Our education system is a scam. Why is it you need a 40K degree to work a 20K a year job?
    From: The Value of a College Degree. ERIC Digest. (link for full article)

    THE ECONOMIC VALUE OF HIGHER EDUCATION
    There is considerable support for the notion that the rate of return on investment in higher education is high enough to warrant the financial burden associated with pursuing a college degree. Though the earnings differential between college and high school graduates varies over time, college graduates, on average, earn more than high school graduates. According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002).

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    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I'm with Timmy

    Anyone know how tuition today compares with tuition in, say, the '50's? After being adjusted for inflation, average household incomes, and the like?

    My theory, is that adjusted for the times, college is probably not any less affordable than it was 50 years ago. I don't understand the entitlement mentality that says everyone has the right to go to college when there are so many people that go out and earn it. If everyone could "afford" college then it's value wouldn't be any better than High School and I believe that many more students would use it as an excuse to avoid going out into the real world and start earning a living. When people have to work hard and earn something, they appreciate it and use it to the fullest.

    Then we have a mentality in this society that says you will never amount to anything if you don't go to college. A father who worked in a factory rutinely tells his children he wants them to have it better, they need to go to college. Instead, he should display pride at the hard work he did every day. Teaching them that a pay check is honorable no matter how much, as long as it's earned whether you wear a blue shirt or a white collar.

    More kids need to realize that a blue collar job is honorable and can be lucrative. In my mid 20's, I was already making over $50k a year working in factories and I didn't have a dime of college debt to pay or years of lost time to make up for.

    I begin to wonder why anyone would want to go to college these days anyway. Besides the hard work, lost time, and debt; if you do "make it" we'll just take more of it away from you in taxes and give it to those who weren't willing to make the sacrafices you made.
    I agree.
    Because it is soooo easy to walk into a nuclear power plant and just start "workin on stuff".

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Highvoltage:
    I've heard of those stats, but I wonder if it's the quality of the men and women who were willing to work for those degrees that has allowed them to succeed, not necessarily the degree itself. I believe that most of those people who had the ambition to persue a degree would have also had the ambition to succeed with or without it.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
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    I do think college is way over priced.

    I had a friend who went to a Technical college to become
    an auto mechanic. He went to school for about a year and
    a half. Paid around $500 a month for tuition..it's here in
    Georgia. 16 months x 500 =$8,000

    Another friend went to a private auto school in another
    state and paid around $28,000 for his training.

    The funny thing is that they both are working at the same shop
    now but, one guy is still paying off his loans.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHorn View Post
    I agree.
    Because it is soooo easy to walk into a nuclear power plant and just start "workin on stuff".
    I would say that it is. I would bet that I could go to a nuclear power plant and get a job. You would obviously need a degree to be a nuclear physisist (and to be able to spell it). But to work on the plant you don't think there are set proceedures? I was a crew chief on an F-15 in the service with 9months of training and you think there is one thing you do on that plane that isn't documented to the letter in a book?

    Now to get that same job in the nuclear factory out of high school I'm sure a person would start out taking a job sweeping floors at probably around minimum wage (but not racking up any debt). Now show up on time, work harder than the guy next to you, have a good attitude, and be able to think for yourself, and the cream will rise to the top. Employers will promote from within and offer to pay for your school if needed when you can show it is in their best interest to do so.

    My first factory job, I was promoted before the end of the first day.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Highvoltage:
    I've heard of those stats, but I wonder if it's the quality of the men and women who were willing to work for those degrees that has allowed them to succeed, not necessarily the degree itself. I believe that most of those people who had the ambition to persue a degree would have also had the ambition to succeed with or without it.
    Possibly, hard to tell. And of course, hard to statistically measure. I myself have worked as a degreed engineer for over 34 years, so my position is slightly biased! Would I be able to do my job without a degree? Probably not. My industry requires the degree as a pre-qualification for the position. My daughter just finished up her Master's Degree in Finance and started yesterday as a government employee. We'll see how that turns out for her over the next few years.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    Possibly, hard to tell. And of course, hard to statistically measure. I myself have worked as a degreed engineer for over 34 years, so my position is slightly biased! Would I be able to do my job without a degree? Probably not. My industry requires the degree as a pre-qualification for the position. My daughter just finished up her Master's Degree in Finance and started yesterday as a government employee. We'll see how that turns out for her over the next few years.
    Congratulations, no doubt you must be beaming with pride! I have an uncle who has worked in engineering without a degree and he struggles to find a job every couple decades when the economy changes and it's time to find a new job somewhere else.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we need to do away with college. I'm saying we need not feel it's the only path to success in this country.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Congratulations, no doubt you must be beaming with pride!
    Most definitely!

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    ...I have an uncle who has worked in engineering without a degree and he struggles to find a job every couple decades when the economy changes and it's time to find a new job somewhere else.
    I can imagine, I know companies that won't even talk to you without that sheet of paper. And I'm also very sure that there are extremely competent engineers out there without a degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    ...Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we need to do away with college. I'm saying we need not feel it's the only path to success in this country.
    I concur, there will always be a place for both degreed and non-degreed workers. However, the non-degreed jobs usually end up as a trade of some sort. When you're young it's easy to keep up with the workload. But as you get older and the body starts to wear out, it's harder to keep up with the kids. My brother-in-law has a degree but ended up as a mechanic for over 30 years. Now he mostly works a desk since he can't turn a wrench as well as those 20 years younger. That and his knees are shot from bending over working on engines all these years.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Maybe how I would like to say it is; Just because someone has the desire to go to college doesn't mean they have the ambition to succeed.

    If college were free, starting tomorrow, for anyone who wanted to go; what would the value of that piece of paper become?

    For most people who's parents didn't pay their way, that piece of paper shows not only that they were able to gain the knowledge that came with it but the sacrafice that it took to earn it. It's not just the knowledge but the effort that shows value to that future employer.

    I believe that the tuition should remain set on the free market and it shouldn't be cheap.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Amazing as it is. Most folks with a degree dont even use it for the job they are in.

    I know I dont...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I believe that the tuition should remain set on the free market and it shouldn't be cheap.
    It's not, though. It's artificially inflated, especially in the area of public schools. It is this artificially high cost of attending these schools that permits private schools to charge what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllAmerican View Post
    Amazing as it is. Most folks with a degree dont even use it for the job they are in.

    I know I dont...
    I don't fault the degree or the education for this. Folks change their minds, get cold feet, bail out altogether, or come across better opportunities. Most degrees can find plenty of jobs to accompany them, if enough digging is done.

    For myself, I like school, especially my field of study (psychology). I dislike is how much it costs me to attend a public school. I dislike the disproportionately high cost of books. I dislike the effects of teacher's unions on the quality of professors (grad students, by and large, make much better instructors). I won't know if it's financially 'worth it' until years from now, but for my own satisfaction, I'd be lying if I said I'd have rather entered the work force with just a high school diploma or 2-year degree than had the opportunity to learn what I have working for my almost-finished 4 year degree.


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