Someone starts threatening you and yours to join a group.

Someone starts threatening you and yours to join a group.

This is a discussion on Someone starts threatening you and yours to join a group. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Let me say first that although this question comes up because of Card Check, I want to stay away from the politics of this program ...

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Thread: Someone starts threatening you and yours to join a group.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    Someone starts threatening you and yours to join a group.

    Let me say first that although this question comes up because of Card Check, I want to stay away from the politics of this program versus a secret ballot, and focus on groups threatening you with bodily harm, and harassment to get their way.

    If someone from an organization were to follow you to your car or worse your home to "Discuss your Vote" how would you react to their trying to discuss it with you late at night after you have told them to leave your door?

    As far as I go my cell phone has a easy to use audio recording function that can be started without looking at the cell phone. Otherwise if this escalates it will be your word against theirs that they were threatening you. I would inform them in no uncertain terms to leave me alone I will only discuss it at work. Any threats or actual violence will met with appropriate force. If no physical altercation occurs copies of audio recordings and any nearby video will be turned over to police and possibly news if no action by police to have a restraining order placed to cover my rear if this escalates to a physical confrontation in the future.





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    Card Check Process Used by Union Organizers Ignites Fury at Indiana Plant - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

    A bill working its way through Congress that changes how employees can create and join unions is facing tough criticism from workers who say it gives unions the green light to use aggressive tactics to get them to sign up.

    The Employee Free Choice Act -- known in Congress as the "card check" bill -- calls for an easier system to allow employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations. Under the bill, employees can request blank cards from existing unions that employees can sign to express interest in joining the union. If 30 percent of employees sign the cards, companies can hold secret-ballot elections to decide on unionization.

    But workers at the Dana Corporation Auto Parts plant in Albion, Ind., say the card check process has nearly torn the 50-person plant apart after harassment and intimidation from the United Auto Workers union forced them to a secret-ballot vote.

    A union organizer came to the plant two years ago to ask employees to join the UAW because the company had signed a neutrality agreement with the union.

    The meeting, however, did not go well, according to plant employee Larry Guest.

    "He was using real rough language -- cursing. It didn't go over well with the women at all. There were a couple that just got up and left," Guest told FOX News.

    Employees said union representatives approached them in the break room, at the plant doors and even followed them to their cars.

    "He was just like an itch that you couldn't scratch. He just wouldn't go away," said employee Rita Murphy.

    "After a while we realized he was going to be here morning, noon and night until he got his numbers that he needed," said Betty Pop.

    Dana employee Jamie Oliver told FOX News that she was approached at her home.

    "We're here in a little town and we're a plant of 50 some people -- you know the last thing you need is to have the union coming to your door saying I want your name," Oliver said.

    The union's relentless approach, she said, eventually wore her down.

    "When they approach you every day -- every day, every day," she said, "after a while it's like 'Okay. Fine. I'll sign the card.'"

    The UAW collected the necessary signatures, but plant employees appealed to the National Labor Relations Board that ruled the employees could hold a secret election.

    "When they held the election, there was no more union," said Guest. "Although it was close."

    Now, employees say, the forced choice has turned friend into foe, causing some employees to be threatened by coworkers who had wanted the union.

    One employee said she was threatened for her choice.

    "I have my reasons for the way that I voted. That's nobody else's business, and had it not been for the card check, nobody would know if I was for or against," said Beverly Musolf.

    The UAW declined to give comment to FOX News on the employees' complaints.

    The latest version of the Employee Free Choice Act was introduced to both chambers of Congress on March 10, 2009.

    FOX News' Brian Wilson contributed to this report.
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  2. #2
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    Being old and grumpy, I agree with your analysis. I would order them off of my property and call the Police immediately. I would begin building a paper trail with the authorities (LEO) immediately, including the NLRB and my legislators.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  3. #3
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    Backdoor political statement

    Quote Originally Posted by InspectorGadget View Post
    Let me say first that although this question comes up because of Card Check,
    FOX News' Brian Wilson contributed to this report.
    Above appears to me to be a back door way of making a political statement on card check.

    The story itself is not believable because it carries this line: "When they approach you every day -- every day, every day," she said, "after a while it's like 'Okay. Fine. I'll sign the card."

    How can that be if there is presently no card check law. Moreover, typically employees don't file NLRB complaints on election outcomes--that is something management does.

    Also, the source, Fox Business news is little more than a propaganda arm of business interest groups.

    As for the SD part of the post, regardless of who is at the door or their reason, the law specifies what you can do, and what you can not do, and 911 is appropriate if someone won't leave. Force is appropriate if force is used or credible threats of force are used.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    I think a police paper trail is a good idea. Also make a timeline of exactly what happened, where, and with whom. Make sure you have more than one copy, and keep it quiet until it's necessary to use it.

    And stay armed!
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array elkhunter's Avatar
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    Like Rock and Glock, I am now in the Grumpy old man stage of life.
    But, Back in the day, (Way Back) when I worked for my Father's trucking company in Michigan driving gravel trains, (You Michigan people know what those monsters of the highway are) I also was forced (with death threats) to be in the Teamsters Union in order to work for my own Father.
    When the union (scabs I call em) voted to strike, I chose to continue to drive the truck with my family name on the door ("elkhunter" Trucking Inc.). I got home after that first day of the strike, and my father met me at the door to say that some union guys from Detroit were looking for me, and I had better go away and "lay low till this blows over."
    All that to say, I have no love for anything that even smells like a union.
    If some union scab comes to my door, I just might recall those death threats and compound them to the current "visit" and strongly consider taking "appropriate action."

    These guys play very dirty. Believe me when I say, if they find your home, it is as good as a death threat. And they love death threats. It gets 'em what they want, most of the time.

    Years later, when I was working in aviation, I worked with a pilot who was previously one of the pilots flying the Teamsters private jets. He told stories of how they would fly across the country to "visit" with someone who did not do what the union wanted, and would take them to an abandoned warehouse to "discuss" the matter until that person "came around to their way of thinking."

    Ask me what I think?
    I think that organization is evil to it's core.
    And, we all know, that the only thing for evil to continue, is that good men do nothing.

    Any union scabs reading this?
    Bring it on!!!!
    Only remember, this time I'm "packing".

    My $2 and 50 cents.
    It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)

    “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.

  6. #6
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    labor violence

    Quote Originally Posted by elkhunter View Post
    When the union (scabs I call em) voted to strike, I chose to continue to drive the truck with my family name on the door ("elkhunter" Trucking Inc.).
    The term "scab" typically does not apply to union membership but to people hired by a company to work while a strike is in progress.

    I got home after that first day of the strike, and my father met me at the door to say that some union guys from Detroit were looking for me, and I had better go away and "lay low till this blows over."
    All that to say, I have no love for anything that even smells like a union.
    If some union scab comes to my door, I just might recall those death threats and compound them to the current "visit" and strongly consider taking "appropriate action."

    You are not exactly unbiased as you were working for your dad who had a strong interest in keeping a union out.

    Shoe on the other foot, an ordinary driver, you might have a totally different viewpoint.

    I am aware of companies using some fairly drastic tactics to keep employees from joining a union. The threats of violence cut both ways. The employer trying to keep an election from happening has plenty of things that can be done to discourage the election and discourage participation in the election. There is a whole industry of "union busting consultants" available to keep facilities union free.

    Intimidation happens from that side too.

    With regard to SD issues, they are always the same regardless of whether or not the threat revolves around a labor issue. The only difference is, for the most part the worker really doesn't have the choice to remove himself from a situation happening at the workplace, and especially when it is initiated by management.

    Violence by management can be subtle; things like threatening to fire people because they take a few seconds too long during a toilet break. It is psychological and emotional violence, but it is violence nonetheless, and I don't have too much sympathy if it comes back with interest.

    But then, this is way off topic except for personal defense issues which are pretty much the same regardless of whether the crime is being done by a thief or by a boss or by a co-worker, or by a drug gang, or by other organized criminals. Crime is crime, threats are threats, intimidation is intimidation, and it doesn't much matter where it comes from.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array elkhunter's Avatar
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    I understand your points Hopyard.
    I thought a little before posting, because my opinion is just that, my OPINION, based on a very personal experience and is therefore extremely biased.

    SD goes wherever you go.
    SD is best used with knowledge.
    Just in case anybody thinks that union threat tactics are from Hollywood, I thought I would post a little personal experience.

    Besides, the OP was about groups using threat tactics to join. I don't know of any companies that threaten people to become employees.
    I do not condone companies that in any way threaten employees however.

    I could go on in my personal experience, but will save that for another time. (I kept it to myself for many years, I can take it to my grave if needed.)

    Oh BTW, I know where the term "scab" originates. Back in "the day", I chose to turn it around, and continue to do so, as my "stick in the eye" to those "thugs" who threatened me in my youth.
    It is my 1st amendment right to do that.
    It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)

    “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.

  8. #8
    Member Array oldnonry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    But then, this is way off topic except for personal defense issues which are pretty much the same regardless of whether the crime is being done by a thief or by a boss or by a co-worker, or by a drug gang, or by other organized criminals. Crime is crime, threats are threats, intimidation is intimidation, and it doesn't much matter where it comes from.

    +1
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson

    "The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth." - Stonewall Jackson

  9. #9
    Member Array dreyerba's Avatar
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    I would tell them to get off my property and I don't want to talk about it. If they didn't leave I would do what I could as far as the states. In Texas if you tell them to get off you property and they don't you have the right to shoot them for trespassing.
    Bryan A Dreyer
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Unions are nothing more than "Legal" organized crime.

    My step dad was a teamster/driver for a major truck line. He also participated in organized crime at the orders of the teamster union leaders. He made a lot of extra money doing activities from strong arming "would be" members to the transporting stolen property and drugs.

    I had a small trucking company. Leader/members of the teamsters tried to force/strong arm me out of business. These people are smart and use the law to their advantage. However, they are typical thugs; and like typical thugs are all cowards and "p*$$*s when confronted mano-o mano!

    I still lost the company, but not because of me being afraid. The union strong armed my insurance carrier to drop me; or risk losing the insurance contract for a major truckline ran by the union. (They did this because I took enough business away from them in my town, thay had to close their terminal.)

    Unions SUCK!
    They, like socialist democrats want everyone dependent on them.

    It's ALL about POWER and POLITICS!

    Unions and democrat philosophy spit in the face of FREEDOM!
    When one is forced to depend on others for life and lively-hood, one ceases to be FREE!

  11. #11
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    Ok folks, stay off the political, or the Mods'll send some goons over to "chat wich ya".

    Let's focus on unwanted visitors, whether they be Union, Witnesses, Obama supporters, or plain old slime...


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Hey elkhunter, I couldn't agree with you more.

    I worked in the aircraft industry in Witchita, KS before moving to CO. The union called a strike, I was non-union and went to work. The boys on the picket line were none to kind, well I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps and was full of piss and vinagar, so invited them to the dance.

    When you get a few of them off by themselves they are not near as brave. I was young, single, and looking for a good time. Today I am not young or single with a wondreful wife and family. The union boys want threaten the family, I'll have to go back to dancing, but this time I will imploy the Marine Corps rules of gun fighting.

    Semper Fi

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Ok folks, stay off the political, or the Mods'll send some goons over to "chat wich ya".

    Let's focus on unwanted visitors, whether they be Union, Witnesses, Obama supporters, or plain old slime...
    I am writing from my crackberry, so Ill keep it short. The only reason I put the direct ref to cardcheck is an anonymous ref to a group trying to use foce to make you join is ludicris on the surface and would not have otherwise made sense. Please keep it off the politics and on the legal ways to defend yourselves aginst this type of situation/harassment.

    The paper trail is the most important thing in my mind otherwise just like an angry neighbor with a grudge they can claim you pulled on them and they are the innocent victims with you loosing both your job and your CWL not to mention the mandatory jail time for a weapons violation.
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  14. #14
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    Employer v Labor violence

    Quote Originally Posted by elkhunter View Post
    I understand your points Hopyard.
    I thought a little before posting, because my opinion is just that, my OPINION, based on a very personal experience and is therefore extremely biased.

    SD goes wherever you go.
    SD is best used with knowledge.
    Just in case anybody thinks that union threat tactics are from Hollywood, I thought I would post a little personal experience.

    Besides, the OP was about groups using threat tactics to join. I don't know of any companies that threaten people to become employees.
    I do not condone companies that in any way threaten employees however.
    In response to your last sentence above, historically in this country it has gone both ways, but some of the worst violence has been directed against workers by employers.

    Just as an historical fact, old Henry Ford used extreme violence to put down a strike. He certainly wasn't the only one. It has happened repeatedly when there have been strikes by miners, strikes by truckers, and it happens every day in not very visible or noteworthy ways in factories (the few remaining) and even white collar employment situations.

    NLRB and the Labor Department exist to provide legal avenues for moderating the emotions and to provide a legal framework for settling issues. Whether or not the procedures and regulations actually accomplish the task is a political issue for discussion elsewhere.

    On the SD aspect, someone at your door threatening you is cause for
    summoning the police, filing the report, and being stand up enough to testify if an arrest arises. If you are absolutely certain it came from co-workers or organizers, the management should be notified so they can document and file appropriate complaints with NLRB. That said, when you work someplace and accept the benefits the union has brought to the workplace, you sure aren't going to endear yourself to your co-workers by not doing your part, not joining, and not paying your dues.

    I know someone who got into big trouble on the job and though not a union member was helped greatly by the union. All they asked was that she pay 19 bucks a month in membership. After her problems were over she decided not to join and not to pay---real grateful of her :- The problem came up a second time, and this dip went back expecting help again. Now she is mad that she didn't get it.

    You don't get a free lunch.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array elkhunter's Avatar
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    Okay guys, the union/card check thing pushed my button.
    (Off Soapbox now)

    The reality is, there is a need to have a SD plan for such a situation because whoever it is that is using strong arm tactics against you is probably prepared and has a contingency for you.
    As mentioned earlier, a paper, audio, video trail is critical.
    Going brute force could be walking into their "territory" and a trap.

    So, any ideas??
    It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)

    “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.

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