Tobacco Rant - Page 2

Tobacco Rant

This is a discussion on Tobacco Rant within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'm with you, Eagleks, even if you are from Kansas (ha ha). They are stripping us of rights a little bit at a time and ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array budokaitd's Avatar
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    I'm with you, Eagleks, even if you are from Kansas (ha ha). They are stripping us of rights a little bit at a time and I believe it's way past the time to stand up to them.
    Join the NRA and Gun Owners of America.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I am a smoker and I agree smoking is unhealthy. I don't think trying to tax it out of existence is the right way either.
    I keep hearing, "I don't smoke, why should I pay higher medical insurance premiums to pay for someone who does?". Well I don't drink, why should I have to pay higher car insurance premiums because someone else decides to. Lets raise the tax on alcohol so a 6 pack of beer cost $40.00, a bottle of off the shelf wine is $75.00, a bottle of liquor is $100.00. Also let's put drinkers in a separate section of restaurants so non drinkers don't have to put up with their loud obnoxious behavior and conversations.
    This is EXACTLY what I was thinking.

    I'm shocked at some of the opinions here, to say the least.

  3. #18
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    I think the tax, as taxes go, is good public policy if

    1. It deters smoking; and
    2. The proceeds go towards anti-smoking (cessation) and related public health funding


    I am not taking a position on taxation in general. That is a whole nuther issue.


    What is good for the Goose might be Good for the Gander, hence I would also support a tax levied on Obesity. The health care costs associated with obesity will overwhelm all other diseases, and show no signs of slowing.

    Yes, I know I will get flamed. The two behaviors are not unlike, and both have horrible costs associated with them (financial and otherwise).

    Edited to add: Yea, alcohol too.

    This totally ignores my general thoughts on taxation, as well as "Slippery Slope" arguments. My BIL works for that "Evil Tobacco Industry" too. I have more stories about the Clinton anti-tobacco crusade than I could share in a lifetime, as well as the stupid DOJ litigation against them that cost taxpayers tons of money for no gains to speak of, as well of the plaintiffs bar that was enriched, and the stupid funds established that were to be used for specified uses that have been drained away by slimeball attorneys and their web of anti-tobacco "organizations" and their ilk.

    Edited again to add: I believe in no tax, other than to suport an outstanding military force to protect us from external military force. Maybe a few other functions - Law Enforcement. The rest can be funded by users in a free market.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  4. #19
    Member Array Torrid's Avatar
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    I'm glad I quit smoking when I did for multiple reasons and I'm currently helping one of my employees quit smoking because he wanted some support from a former smoker. The price increases have definitely helped him slow down on smoking, from about 2 packs to 3/4 pack a day. I think smoking is a horrible habit, but I don't understand taxing the crap out of it. Seems to remind me of how much the government thinks they know better than us with our own bodies.

  5. #20
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    I undergo daily treatments for asthma. Secondhand smoke is the number '1' allergen - that I'm aware of - that triggers my asthma attacks.

    However, I'm opposed to increasing the tax on tobacco products. And if other people want to contribute to the destruction of their health by smoking tobacco, that's their choice; as long as they don't do it around me.
    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  6. #21
    Member Array rcsnpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    Thank you for raising this important point. I don't like my tax dollars going to pay for the healthcare of people who choose to be unhealthy. That's why we should support significantly higher taxes on fast food and any product with excessive sugar. We'll let Congress decide what's excessive.

    Also, the military requires me to get permission for "high-risk" activities. Why? Because I could get injured. We could defray health care costs (and generate revenue!) by requiring a license for various activities. Want to go skiing? It will you cost you a $200/yr. I don't ski, and I don't want to pay for your broken leg. General Aviation? Risky and a hazard to those of who don't fly...seen all those planes crashing on houses lately? A pilot's license should have a surtax. Hangliding or bungee-jumping? Waaay risky and waaay expensive to fix injuries. Let's make that one $500/yr.

    Tanning beds is another area we could tax. Beachgoers, too, on a lesser scale. I'm not paying for your skin cancer when I don't like the beach. You drive a corvette? Well, the ONLY reason someone wants a car like that is because they clearly want to go fast...risky! Tax it.

    Let's think even bigger...do you know how much a kid costs the health care system? There's prenatal care, delivery, and the ER visits all the dang time. I don't want kids, and I don't to pay for someone else's. Instead of a child-tax CREDIT we need to have a straight up child-TAX.

    Lastly...guns. Do you know how many people are brought into ERs with gunshot wounds in our cities? Any idea how expensive that is? Nobody needs a gun...that's what cops are for. Think how much money we could save LE and hospitals if we could just get all the guns and ammo "off the streets." At the least, we could significantly raise taxes on guns and ammo to help with the health care costs gun-owners' choices generate.

    /sarcasm off. You're smart enough to see the slippery slope of your argument, but I thought I'd helpfully point it out.
    Well Said!
    I was going to tell a story about the conversation I had with a Cigar store owner that was changing from cigars to motorcycles because of the price hikes.
    But you made such a Great point. I don't need to.

  7. #22
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    Hopyard, thanks amigo. I normally turn away from the noise but once in a while, and after a great deal of molestation, I get a bit grizzly. The poor guy that now farms my place grew pumpkins last year. He gets the place for next to nothing so our take on it covered 25% of the annual taxes. That's it. There used to be an honest living from that farm. Out of the $300 we got, and this is a killer, I'd just bought $45 dollars in pumkins for Halloween, same day I got his check. I expect he'd have let me pick a few from his field but I didn't know. Life is ironic. But some topics bring out the worst in some folks. Well....God bless the child that got his own I guess.

    +1 on growing pot. The world needs more rope. But I think some of the neighbors may have that covered and there's always some funny, low flying aircraft in the late summer. I guess them fellers just don't like heights or somethin.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    ..........there's always some funny, low flying aircraft in the late summer. I guess them fellers just don't like heights or somethin.


    It is a tragedy (for growers and smokers) that tobacco farming has been slayed by the ugly beast of gub'mnt. I feel for ya.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    One truly unfortunate thing is that somehow a substitute money making crop has not been found that could allow folks like you to make a living.
    There has been. Opimum poppies. Interesting that that so called 'cash crops' are the ones that addict people and bring hardship, disease and horror to families.

    Notwithstanding that smoking is a vile, smelly, and disgusting habit, the fact is that smoking and second hand smoke are proven carcinogens. Not only is the individual at risk but everyone around him is at risk, also. And it is not a minor risk. Smoking is a major cause of heart disease, stroke, emphesyma, and lung cancer.

    It is ironic that some who complain about cigarette taxes are the same ones that want to legalize marijuana and tax it heavily.

    This has nothing to do with personal liberty. It has everything to do with being a societal menace.

  10. #25
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    Opium is not (generally) a substitute crop for our farms

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    There has been. Opimum poppies.
    How ridiculous.

    Here I was being somewhat sympathetic with the plight of the small tobacco farmer, someone who is losing an ability to earn a living as society becomes more concerned with reducing tobacco use, and you suggest that opium would be a substitute crop.

    How in the world do you think a US farmer can make a legitimate buck growing opium? Maybe if the stuff was decriminalized. Are you suggesting that now? Pot would be a better choice btw.

    Changed your mind on decriminalization?

    I was raising a serious issue. There needs to be an economically viable alternative crop for the tobacco farmer. We are slowly putting them out of business, and they need a way out, a way to continue to make a living in farming. And here you want to counsel that he should grow opium.

    Amazing. Utterly amazing.

  11. #26
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    THC free hemp? for svgheartland

    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post

    +1 on growing pot. The world needs more rope. But I think some of the neighbors may have that covered and there's always some funny, low flying aircraft in the late summer. I guess them fellers just don't like heights or somethin.
    Would it be economically viable to grow hemp (for rope) if there was a THC free variety and no interference from the Feds?

    I'd like to see a high tech crop; e.g., tobacco plants bred, engineered, for producing a high value medicinal compound. Something like that would be doable if USDA put the right amount of effort into the R&D.

    I grew up in tobacco country in CT. It was always quite a sight to see those covered fields.

  12. #27
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    How ridiculous.

    Here I was being somewhat sympathetic with the plight of the small tobacco farmer, someone who is losing an ability to earn a living as society becomes more concerned with reducing tobacco use, and you suggest that opium would be a substitute crop.
    I was being faceitous. I am somewhat sympathetic that someone is having trouble. However, enabling an industry whose entire goal is to cause addiction to their product, a product that kills millions ever year, is nothing to cheer.

    How in the world do you think a US farmer can make a legitimate buck growing opium? Maybe if the stuff was decriminalized. Are you suggesting that now? Pot would be a better choice btw.

    Changed your mind on decriminalization?
    Of course not.

    I was raising a serious issue. There needs to be an economically viable alternative crop for the tobacco farmer. We are slowly putting them out of business, and they need a way out, a way to continue to make a living in farming.
    Why? There is nothing sacred about farming. When buggy whip producers found their product line to be untenable they found alternative businesses. They learned new skills. The adapted to a changing environment. It is difficult for a small farmer to compete. No question. We have more than enough food and we feed the entire world with industrial farming. That does not mean we should condone farming addictive and harmful drugs like opium poppies and tobacco.

  13. #28
    kpw
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    It's amusing to see people condoning the taxing or outright banishing of things they don't personally like but when it comes to something that is near and dear to them, they cry foul. Amusing isn't really the right word but I'm being polite.
    Many will say second hand smoke causes them discomfort or harm and shouldn't be allowed in public places. I sure won't argue that any more than shooting in your backyard in the middle of the night, might disturb your neighbors. Be careful in condoning unreasonable taxes on things you don't like because others have the same agenda about things you do.
    Personally, I think this world might be a whole lot better off if we all just minded our own a bit more. I think I'm gonna go get some greek dogs, drink a beer, buy a cigar and celebrate still having the freedom to do so...at least for now.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    It is ironic that some who complain about cigarette taxes are the same ones that want to legalize marijuana and tax it heavily.
    Around my town, I get the idea that smoking tobacco will soon be illegal and 'medical marijuana' users will become a protected class that can smoke anywhere, anytime, including the workplace. I guess cigarette smokers should create studies that prove tobacco eases any ailment from '4F' to 'the munchies'. Then they could do a million smoker march in support of medical tobacco. I wonder what would happen if you smoked a joint and a cigarette at the same time?









    FWIW I had a boss a few years back who regularly smoked cigars around the workplace and it didn't bother me at all. He owned the place and I could quit at any time, so I never saw a problem with it. It is nice that government knows what is best for me though.

  15. #30
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    Farming's importance

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Why? There is nothing sacred about farming. When buggy whip producers found their product line to be untenable they found alternative businesses. They learned new skills. The adapted to a changing environment. It is difficult for a small farmer to compete. No question. We have more than enough food and we feed the entire world with industrial farming. That does not mean we should condone farming addictive and harmful drugs like opium poppies and tobacco.
    Actually, in a sense there is something sacred about farming. It is the only real productivity activity there is. Everything else we do is a derivative of what is enabled by farming.

    I was not suggesting that tobacco farming (which does contribute to a societal problem) be allowed to continue in its present form (though I do like my cigars). What I was suggesting is that there are ways, or could be ways, for the small farmer to remain in business if they were enabled (assisted) to grow crops with high value molecular constituents, as one example of a possibility.

    Where you see an economic Darwinism fairly driving the small farmer out of business, I see an opportunity for the farmer and for society.

    I have no problem with society priming the pump in the form of research and development investments. That is after all, precisely what we did to the electronics/computer/communications industry and the materials manufacturing industry with the space program. Why is the farmer less deserving of Uncle priming the pump?

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