Tobacco Rant - Page 3

Tobacco Rant

This is a discussion on Tobacco Rant within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Would it be economically viable to grow hemp (for rope) if there was a THC free variety and no interference from ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Would it be economically viable to grow hemp (for rope) if there was a THC free variety and no interference from the Feds?

    I'd like to see a high tech crop; e.g., tobacco plants bred, engineered, for producing a high value medicinal compound. Something like that would be doable if USDA put the right amount of effort into the R&D.

    I grew up in tobacco country in CT. It was always quite a sight to see those covered fields.
    How about we apply the bolded across the board and fix it from the start. Use the government the ONLY way it should be used, to prevent the initiation of force. PERIOD. Keep their grubby hands out of everything else.

    Yes I'm one of those grandkids that watched his Grandfather slowly lose his family's land bit by bit as the GOVERNMENT fouled him over by raising the taxes on his property every year after he retired. Now all that's left of hundreds of miles of hard worked farmland for the better part of two centuries is now reduced to a dozen measly acres.
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  2. #32
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Use the government the ONLY way it should be used, to prevent the initiation of force. PERIOD.
    How about we follow the Constitution, instead. Nothing in the Constitution has any resemblance to your theory. Period.

  3. #33
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    A comment Pack, with some sympathy for situation

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    How about we apply the bolded across the board and fix it from the start. Use the government the ONLY way it should be used, to prevent the initiation of force. PERIOD. Keep their grubby hands out of everything else.

    Yes I'm one of those grandkids that watched his Grandfather slowly lose his family's land bit by bit as the GOVERNMENT fouled him over by raising the taxes on his property every year after he retired. Now all that's left of hundreds of miles of hard worked farmland for the better part of two centuries is now reduced to a dozen measly acres.
    Pack, I have one comment, and it is being made with some considerable sympathy over the lost land, though it might not sound that way.

    You talk of property taxes being the reason the land was lost. As far as I know that is a local/state issue, whereas generally when folks complain about "the government," at least on this forum, they are talking about The Feds. The Feds don't have a property tax.

    I wouldn't doubt that the Federal Estate tax ate up the value of the land after your ancestor's departure, but that is a different issue from property taxes. And either way, it is gone. That is sad, and there are no easy answers to the problem because like it or not we need government for all sorts of things. We might not agree on what those things are, one man's essential program is another's bridge to nowhere and pork, but we do need to fund government.

  4. #34
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    Would it be economically viable to grow hemp (for rope) if there was a THC free variety and no interference from the Feds?
    Been there, done that, prior to 1937. Hemp was a significant crop before the industrial revolution. Paper, rope, canvas, rugs, a lot of fibrous uses.

    Go to get the Feds out now, though.


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  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    How about we follow the Constitution, instead. Nothing in the Constitution has any resemblance to your theory. Period.
    I think that's a great idea. Nothing in the Constitution allows for taxing products for social reasons. If it isn't for defense, or the few other areas allowed by the Constitution, then the Government should stay out!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysoldier View Post
    Now I don't smoke any more (Had Cancer of the tongue and lymph nodes) but I did when I was young and later I smoked a pipe for many years don't know if the cancer was from smoke or just bad luck but my wife still smokes (Her Choice) and my 82 year Mother does also my gripe is the chosen one has put two tax hikes on tobacco in a row the second starts on 1 April." Its for the children" Mr Obama made 4 million last year and god knows how much he will make as Pres so if smokes go to $10 a pack he could care less along with all the other crooks in congress and their $25 dollar cigars ,pipe tobacco went up from $17 a pound to $49 a pound. Now like I said I don't smoke but I don't care if anyone else does its a personnal choice and the taxes only hurt people who arn't rich or live on a fixed income. NOW what if the chosen one desides to double or triple the taxes on ammo or componets "for the children" who will speak up?
    smoking has been bastardized till no one will speak up whats next?
    THINK ABOUT IT
    I agree $5.00 a pack now accounts to about one smoke the same as I pay for each .45 ACP.

    About everything I do costs me. Since about everything I like is bad for me.

    I know smoking is bad, so is too much of anything Else.

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  7. #37
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    I smoke maybe a pack (and an occasional cigar) a month and I don't smoke around people who are uncomfortable with it

    some good reasons the taxes should not be where they are

    *tobacco does not impair ones abilities like let's just say.................alcohol

    *almost everything that one consumes in today's society could be linked to some sort of health problem hell the coke I'm drinking right now is "bad" for me

    *nicotine also increases short term memory

  8. #38
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
    I think that's a great idea. Nothing in the Constitution allows for taxing products for social reasons. If it isn't for defense, or the few other areas allowed by the Constitution, then the Government should stay out!
    Yes, the Constitution does allow for Congress to collect taxes.

    Article I Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    I too disagree with using taxation to modify behavior. It should simply be illegal like other dangerous drugs. We should move to a consumption tax on all legal products excluding food and medicine.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I too disagree with using taxation to modify behavior.
    That is as old as taxation, LOL.


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  10. #40
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    I have to say that I am disappointed in some of the responses here. The power to tax is not so that government can regulate people's behavior. Taxes are supposed to be for the raising of revenue so that the government can perform certain duties. Taxes are not so that we can stop people from doing things we don't like. If you want to talk about freedom one day, and taxing things you don't like the next...that scares me.

    I see no difference in this, and people wanting to put higher taxes on ammo and guns.

    And for the record, I don't smoke. I don't like when people smoke around me. So in that instance I agree with regulating places in PUBLIC where people can smoke. But putting a tax on smokes affects them no matter where they smoke, even if they only smoke at home.
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  11. #41
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    The power to tax is not so that government can regulate people's behavior. Taxes are supposed to be for the raising of revenue so that the government can perform certain duties.
    I agree wholeheartedly in theory, but taxation, as a practical matter, revolves in a political world and will never change because taxation is determined by politicians. Do away with taxation and let individuals choose their own behavior, and reap the rewards or suffer the detriment.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  12. #42
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    I smoked for about 20 years, but my wife and I stopped when she got pregnant with our son. Did I like the taxes on cigarettes back then, nope, are they higher now, yep. I believe that Arkansas just passed a 1.00 per pack increase in the tax on cigarettes.

    Alcohol is taxed higher than other things just like cigarettes, those sin taxes are a real killer for us sinners. Many municipalities have hamburger taxes, and raise money off of fast or prepared foods. It would be virtually impossible for the feds to tax fast food since there is no current regulation on it like there is alcohol, tobacco or firearms. Is anyone suggesting that we start a new government agency called, the hamburger, donut and fried chicken agency or something similar? I wouldn't think so.

    The simple fact is, we have government entities, whether they are local state or federal that have grown to sizes that are beyond manageable. It takes ever increasing dollars to keep them up and running so that they can do what they feel they need to do to keep our communities, states and countries operating. So when they need to raise some more money, they raise taxes, or borrow money. Currently the feds have borrowed tens of trillions of dollars and have unfunded commitments of tens of trillions of dollars more. So they try to offset it with taxes, and the easiest way is to raise taxes on things that the majority of voters won't complain about. Tobacco is just the latest one to take a hit.

    Like it or not, ammunition may be next, or they will find some other thing that they don't think people will complain about to raise. That is the nature of the beast that we have created.
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  13. #43
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    I think tobacco, alcohol, gambling etc.. all fall under "pursuit of happiness" and its wrong to tax them. But Congress is full of Republicans and Demoncrats, neither of which are familiar with the Constitution as far as I can tell based on the last 80 years of politics in this country.

    I quit smoking a few years ago. Tobacco tax in my home state (WA) was 129% at that time.

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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Notwithstanding that smoking is a vile, smelly, and disgusting habit, the fact is that smoking and second hand smoke are proven carcinogens. Not only is the individual at risk but everyone around him is at risk, also. And it is not a minor risk. Smoking is a major cause of heart disease, stroke, emphesyma, and lung cancer.
    It has everything to do with being a societal menace.
    I had a great grandmother that still smoked at 97 yrs old... she died when she was 98. She never had cancer, astma, a stroke, lung cancer, emphesyma, or any of it.

    You have boughten into the "could".... concept.

    I smoked. Several people I knew didn't. In the last 4 yrs, 9 of these never smoked in their life... are now dead.... from strokes, heart attacks, blood clot, unknown viral infection, etc. Everyone of them are younger than I am.

    I don't think things are as clear cut as you seem to think they are, nor that you've been led to believe. Nor, do I think that is the real issue.

    I agree... let's tax coffee, alcohol, gun owners, etc. for the 'threat' to the cost of health care and our welfare that they contribute. They were about to tax 'red meat' and ' chocolate' for the same reasons last year.... hell, let's not leave anything out. Let's also include motorcycle riders, parachutist, pilots, people who are over-weight (that came up as a fat tax), feeble people, people who get alzheimers.... because it's their genetics that lead to it -- not ours. When does this end ? At what point, and who do you think should decide ?

  15. #45
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    I agree, my mother had jar cancer and she never smoked or chewed tobacco.
    Every time that she went to a new Doctor they would ask her if she had quite smoking yet. They didn't know what to say when she told them that she had never smoked or was overly exposed to second had smoke.

    I can't believe the people that are so supportive of the 2nd amendment, but want to support outrageous taxes on legal products that they find offensive. I don't smoke , but I don't think you should tax a legal business out of business. There are a lot of hard working people that make a honest business in tobacco.

    This Country was founded on tobacco. We wouldn't be here now if it weren't for tobacco.

    With that said I do agree with smoking areas, but not as extreme as some Cities or States have.

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