Tobacco Rant

This is a discussion on Tobacco Rant within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Eagleks I had a great grandmother that still smoked at 97 yrs old... she died when she was 98. She never had ...

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  1. #46
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    I had a great grandmother that still smoked at 97 yrs old... she died when she was 98. She never had cancer, astma, a stroke, lung cancer, emphesyma, or any of it.

    You have boughten into the "could".... concept.

    I smoked. Several people I knew didn't. In the last 4 yrs, 9 of these never smoked in their life... are now dead.... from strokes, heart attacks, blood clot, unknown viral infection, etc. Everyone of them are younger than I am.
    You are using a flawed argument to justify actions. Of course, not everyone who smokes will have a heart attack. And some will have lung cancer without a single cigarette.

    However, there is a significant risk of contracting thoses diseases by smoking. That is a proven fact evidenced by valid scientific studies. We KNOW cigarette smoking causes those maladies. And we KNOW the statisitics regarding the frequency of thoses diseases because of smoking. No mystery. No guessing. Just cold, hard, smokey facts.

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  3. #47
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    Taxation

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Many municipalities have hamburger taxes, and raise money off of fast or prepared foods.

    Like it or not, ammunition may be next, or they will find some other thing that they don't think people will complain about to raise. That is the nature of the beast that we have created.
    Yes, the key is doing the tax on folks who won't complain or get sympathy when they do complain.

    My pet peeve is hotel and motel taxes. When you travel sometimes 20% or more of the actual hotel bill is a combination of State and local occupancy taxes. Now, it isn't that the places with these taxes don't want the tourism, though that sometimes is the case. Rather, it is easy to tax a small number of businesses, which pass the tax on to out of town customers, who then have neither a vote nor a reasonable outlet for complaint.

    Like it or not, the money has to be raised or borrowed, and it is impossible to get true agreement on the necessity of various governmental projects.

    Again, one person or one industry's high priority government project is another persons pork. One person's opinion that something is utter waste is countered by someone else's opinion that the service is essential.

    We settle these issues by who we select at election time, by writing letters to our Critters, by writing letters to our local newspapers, by agitating with our neighbors to attend city council meetings, picking up the phone and calling our city managers, and so forth.

    It is called democracy.

  4. #48
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is called democracy.
    Our government is supposed to be a republic, not a democracy.
    It's important we know the difference.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Yes, the key is doing the tax on folks who won't complain or get sympathy when they do complain.

    My pet peeve is hotel and motel taxes. When you travel sometimes 20% or more of the actual hotel bill is a combination of State and local occupancy taxes. Now, it isn't that the places with these taxes don't want the tourism, though that sometimes is the case. Rather, it is easy to tax a small number of businesses, which pass the tax on to out of town customers, who then have neither a vote nor a reasonable outlet for complaint.

    Like it or not, the money has to be raised or borrowed, and it is impossible to get true agreement on the necessity of various governmental projects.

    Again, one person or one industry's high priority government project is another persons pork.
    One person's opinion that something is utter waste is countered by someone else's opinion that the service is essential.

    We settle these issues by who we select at election time, by writing letters to our Critters, by writing letters to our local newspapers, by agitating with our neighbors to attend city council meetings, picking up the phone and calling our city managers, and so forth.

    It is called democracy.
    If it's not being used for the purpose of stopping the initiation of force, it's pork...or worse. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I used to believe that the best and only way for the country to work correctly was through the Constitution, but the more and more I learn and see, the more I've come to realize that even the Constitution is so severely flawed that even strictly following the Constitution can't work.
    edit: that's why I have issues with this whole democracy concept. What makes it right for a majority to vote away basic rights from the minority. 300 million mini-tyrants working together are no better that one big tyrant.
    Last edited by packinnova; March 29th, 2009 at 02:59 PM. Reason: edit
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  6. #50
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    It is important to participate

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Our government is supposed to be a republic, not a democracy.
    It's important we know the difference.
    Hmmm. Is that an excuse for not participating? Then you think you get to complain because your representative didn't do what you wanted?

    Participate. Using the comment above as an excuse to effectively say that you are helpless doesn't get you or anyone else anywhere.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hmmm. Is that an excuse for not participating? Then you think you get to complain because your representative didn't do what you wanted?

    Participate. Using the comment above as an excuse to effectively say that you are helpless doesn't get you or anyone else anywhere.
    The point is that we do not live in a democracy and the Founders knew that democracy is a failed governmental model. The Founders would be appalled at the 17th Amendment and they would turn in their graves knowing the people would elect the President. They would fight against the notion that illegals and non taxpayers would have any say at all in our government.

    We ARE helpless as long as we allow those receiving government handouts to elect those that would continue the absolute abuse of our tax dollars.

  8. #52
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    For svgheartland and others; high value crops

    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    Hopyard, thanks amigo. I normally turn away from the noise but once in a while, and after a great deal of molestation, I get a bit grizzly. The poor guy that now farms my place grew pumpkins last year. He gets the place for next to nothing so our take on it covered 25% of the annual taxes. That's it. There used to be an honest living from that farm. Out of the $300 we got, and this is a killer, I'd just bought $45 dollars in pumkins for Halloween, same day I got his check. I expect he'd have let me pick a few from his field but I didn't know. Life is ironic. But some topics bring out the worst in some folks. Well....God bless the child that got his own I guess.

    +1 on growing pot. The world needs more rope. But I think some of the neighbors may have that covered and there's always some funny, low flying aircraft in the late summer. I guess them fellers just don't like heights or somethin.
    From today's news, who knows if it will ever work out, but here is a good example of what I was talking of when I said we needed a way for the small tobacco farmer to make a living from his land.

    From MSNBC news web site:

    Tobacco plant virus may yield HIV drugBug: could help produce drug called griffithsin, which may prevent infection

    The gist of the article is that the product grifithsin can be produced in huge quantities in tobacco plants infected by the tobacco mosaic virus carrying the gene for grifithsin. The substance is needed to fight HIV spread.

    High value crops such as this don't happen by accident, folks. It takes the investment in basic research on the genetics of the tobacco mosaic virus, HIV, and tobacco agronomy to get anywhere. ONLY UNCLE can afford the seed money that went into the discovery research needed.* Eventually, the public, the farmer, the pharmaceutical industry, all will benefit. Don't cry so much when you pay your taxes.
    ______________________________________________
    * And generally the young scientists who do the discovery research are horrifically underpaid.

  9. #53
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    Love it or leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The point is that we do not live in a democracy and the Founders knew that democracy is a failed governmental model..
    Then take your attitude and move somewhere where they don't have democracy.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    From today's news, who knows if it will ever work out, but here is a good example of what I was talking of when I said we needed a way for the small tobacco farmer to make a living from his land.

    From MSNBC news web site:

    Tobacco plant virus may yield HIV drugBug: could help produce drug called griffithsin, which may prevent infection

    The gist of the article is that the product grifithsin can be produced in huge quantities in tobacco plants infected by the tobacco mosaic virus carrying the gene for grifithsin. The substance is needed to fight HIV spread.

    High value crops such as this don't happen by accident, folks. It takes the investment in basic research on the genetics of the tobacco mosaic virus, HIV, and tobacco agronomy to get anywhere. ONLY UNCLE can afford the seed money that went into the discovery research needed.* Eventually, the public, the farmer, the pharmaceutical industry, all will benefit. Don't cry so much when you pay your taxes.
    ______________________________________________
    * And generally the young scientists who do the discovery research are horrifically underpaid.
    Only because "UNCLE" stole all that seed money in the first place that very well could have allowed any enterprising indvidual or group of individuals to come up with the same.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Smoking a pack, or multiple packs, a day harms the individual and can cause problems to those around.
    Tax them to death, I could care less.

    Now for ammo, I can do one, two, three, or even four or more boxes a day...no problem for me or anyone else.

    I see a big difference between taxing a health hazzard and a recreational activity, but I get your point.

    I beleive that taxing ammo 'out of reach' would cause an uproar from 80 million gun owners.
    i completely agree with this.

  12. #56
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    For Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Only because "UNCLE" stole all that seed money in the first place that very well could have allowed any enterprising indvidual or group of individuals to come up with the same.
    Come on now. The small tobacco farmers can't afford the millions of dollars of investment in R&D to accomplish what I just posted about, and our country can't afford to let all that land rot in unproductive fashion.

    Everyone, including the ordinary taxpayer, can come out a big winner if what I posted about makes money for the pharmaceutical industry; makes money for the farmer; reduces the incident of the infection and slows or prevents spread of the disease.

    There are things we as a society can do together that the individual, or small groups of individuals, can never accomplish.

    Someone had to study the tobacco mosaic virus when, 40-50 years doing so was mostly a matter of idle academic curiosity. Someone (very many someones) studied the biochemistry and genetics and "stuff" to pave the way for the possibility of developing a high value use for the tobacco growing farm land.

    I know you think government should stay out of everything, except right now you are using the great stuff which came from things our government has done. The internet itself being one example. What about that Dish that brings you digital TV at your rural place where you seem to live? Do you think private enterprise could have ever invented the rocketry by itself?

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Then take your attitude and move somewhere where they don't have democracy.
    Huh? Are you saying that you believe the United States of America is not a republic?

    Certainly you understand why democracy is a failed model for government...

  14. #58
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    I do believe that we're brothers and sisters in arms. And I think we've lost that a bit in this one. It's always good to tumble in the dirt a bit and pick each other up .... dust each other off and carry on. Maybe this one needs to RIP? This is a republic, there is no question on that. That said, this is the US and we can differ in opinion and ... wisely... call it a day. As for the rest of 'em....well nevermind.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

  15. #59
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    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Come on now. The small tobacco farmers can't afford the millions of dollars of investment in R&D to accomplish what I just posted about, and our country can't afford to let all that land rot in unproductive fashion.

    Everyone, including the ordinary taxpayer, can come out a big winner if what I posted about makes money for the pharmaceutical industry; makes money for the farmer; reduces the incident of the infection and slows or prevents spread of the disease.

    There are things we as a society can do together that the individual, or small groups of individuals, can never accomplish.
    You're joking, right? Ever heard of Pasteur, Curie, Salk? Did they need government handouts to prevent disease and change our society for the better?

    The idea that government needs to throw money around in hopes of something sticking to the wall is ill conceived. Private enterprise will devise more cost effective, innovative, and timely products than government could ever hope to produce. Edison's invention of the incandescent light bulb forever changed society. No government involvement at all. Driving curiosity and the ultimate goal of profit was the catalyst to the electricity we take for granted.

    I know you think government should stay out of everything, except right now you are using the great stuff which came from things our government has done. The internet itself being one example.
    This is absolutely false. Gore did not invent the internet nor did government. Sun Microsystems developed the technology and protocols that are now ubiquitous.

    What about that Dish that brings you digital TV at your rural place where you seem to live? Do you think private enterprise could have ever invented the rocketry by itself?
    Of course!

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